Are you affected by the first mass teacher’s strike in 20 years?

Have you had to make special arrangements to look after your child?

Do you sympathise with teachers?

Have your say here.

Speaking as a teacher I would like to say that this strike is not just about wanting more money as most people are under the misapprehension.

It is about retaining good teachers in the profession. several thousand young teachers are entering and leaving within two years of joining and there are several reasons for this.

There is, of course, the monetary issue, of which I am greatly affected. Then there is the incredibly stressful working environment, of which you can not appreciate unless you have been in the classroom. Teaching is not a 9 - 5 job, you can never switch off - if you didn't care you wouldn't be a great teacher. People say about how great the holidays are but of them most of the time is spent working, marking, planning.

the govenment are ploughing money into the training of teachers but not investing in their retention.

I went to university for 4 years (as you have to to become a teacher in the first place) in this time i HAD to take out a student loan. i borrowed £16000. I have been paying this loan off for 4 years now and still owe £17000. I think this is ridiculas, the time it will take me to pay off my loan is being extended by several years and several thousand pounds (4.8% this year) and yet my pay has increased by 2.1%. how will I ever pay this off? 

I am a good teacher but i am also seriously considering my position. I could get paid much more for much less stress, I suppose the reason why im still there is because i care so much about the students in my care; however i can only be streched so far. I'll leave you with this........The question is not about who cannot afford to strike but who can afford not to? 

I'm sick of hearing about how hard working teachers are.  Teachers should try a manual job and then see how hard worked they are and for a hell of a lot less!!  No doubt teachers would say they're providing an essential service but judging by the fact that there are too many qualifications flying around and not enough jobs in the market I would dispute that.  I would love all those holidays if it meant I could work from home.   Teachers don't know when they're well off.

Someone once described teachers as glorified childminders.  I think they had a point. 

I'm guessing you don't have children then. If you do, I'm sure you would be front of the que complaining if the teachers didn't put in every hour possible trying to ensure your child has a good education.

 May I suggest that you go and spend a couple of weeks shadowing a teacher in a primary school. After that if you think you could do a better job, I'd be very suprised! The grief from children which can be very disheartening, 12 hour days in school, the marking and planning done when you get home, weekends and holidays taken up on assessment and making resources, ensuring you have planned and got all you need to support the more and less able, dealing with children that do not speak English, planning for TA's, writing assemblies, attending staff meetings, running clubs....need I go on. We don't turn up at 9.00 and go home at 3.30 as you might think!

Glorified childminder? How narrow minded!!

toppigglet:

I'm guessing you don't have children then. If you do, I'm sure you would be front of the que complaining if the teachers didn't put in every hour possible trying to ensure your child has a good education.

 May I suggest that you go and spend a couple of weeks shadowing a teacher in a primary school. After that if you think you could do a better job, I'd be very suprised! The grief from children which can be very disheartening, 12 hour days in school, the marking and planning done when you get home, weekends and holidays taken up on assessment and making resources, ensuring you have planned and got all you need to support the more and less able, dealing with children that do not speak English, planning for TA's, writing assemblies, attending staff meetings, running clubs....need I go on. We don't turn up at 9.00 and go home at 3.30 as you might think!

Good grief.  No thanks.  I don't want the job and those that do it obviously do so why don't they just quit whingeing. 

<quote>Glorified childminder? How narrow minded!!<quote>

Tut! Tut! Mustn't insult the professional classes eh?  After all they've worked hard to get where they are unlike us lowly working class folk!    Sounds an appropriate description to me!

I totally agree with you. I work in an average wage paid job which is, to me, good and honest. i work all year round, all different hours to go on holiday and I still manage to pay my bills and live a happy life. The teachers seem to be living out with their own means and they only have themselves to blame you buy what you can afford!!!! Their starting wage is over £4000 more a year than what i get and around £7000 more than my full time supermarket employed friend.We are both working to offer a service to the public but because its not within the "public sector" we are not important.

I can't understand why they can't afford holidays - even on a starting salary of £20,000 they should be able to afford a holiday or two.  I'd be delighted if I was approaching anything like their starting salary then I might not have the worry about what to do about the new stray cat I've picked up who's expecting kittens.   Even cat food's becoming a luxury these days!!

i also suggest you try living with a teacher, the stress my wife is under due to unrealistic targets, parents that seem to think teacher is another name for soft target ,its a wonder our marraige has survived. and as for whingeing when did you last do a job where assault is a common occrence and your career can be ruined by one malicous little brat.And on a sideline most teachers now are from the "working class" and proud off it so save your class dependent insecuritys and jealousys for the right target, Teachers are underpaided and under appreciated by small minded "parents " who can't be bothered to disipline their "misunderstod" little brats

Assault is a common occurrence in many professions nowadays - attacks on health service workers are common, taxi drivers are often attacked by drunken passengers or those just out to get the takings, the fire brigade get pelted with stones when called out to hoax emergencies (need I go on?!).    The teaching profession is not alone.  It's just a general decline in standards.  Something to be said for the deferential society where everyone knew their place and knew how to behave decently.  So much for freedom and people's rights eh?! 

Whilst many teachers may well be from working class backgrounds I daresay many would not class themselves as working class once they are established as teachers.  I've worked with lecturers (one "step up" from teachers perhaps) but they are possibly the most snobbish people on this planet.  And whilst you  insist teachers are underpaid and underappreciated so are many other workers - welcome to the club!!!  Why should people who earn a fraction of what teachers earn feel any sympathy for them whatsoever???

There is an old saying, 'Two wrongs don't make a right (as in correct)'.  I have taught in English schools and all I can say is, if something isn't done about the way teachers are treated and paid, you won't have any teachers soon. 

That's not to say that something ought not to be done about nurses and taxi drivers etc as well.  You are quite right, Rosie2008, that it is something coming out of a 'general decline in standards'. 

So  much for throwing out ideas that there is no absolute right or wrong, that everything is relative, that all our ideas are 'right' because it is right for us, that we mustn't offend anyone.  What happens is that the people who don't care about anyone except themselves use these silly ideas for their own benefit but don't worry if they trample over other peope'srights, feeling, and persons. 

So we have people who attack others in taxis or hold up stores/banks etc ('I have a right to be as rich as the next bloke') and won't obey teh law (' I have a right to drive any way I want to', 'I have a right to not learn if I don't want to', etc).  The trouble is, the teachers are obliged to teach.  If the parents complain that Little Johnny isn't learning, it's the teacher's fault, because if Little Johnny hasn't learned, the teacher isn't a 'good teacher'.  That's the way the tstem work. 

But there is another old saying relevant here.  'You can lead a horse to water but you can;'t make him drink', sometimes reworded as 'you can lead a child to school but you can't make him think'. 

Once upon a time people realised that with privelege ('right') came responsibility.  Not everyone demonstrated it.  Many were very badly behaved toward those who were less fortunate, but it was their responsibility, all the same, to care for those on their property and under their authority.  People objected to the sort of mistreatment they got, and well they might, but now the boot is on the other foot.  There is no respect at all for authority, and many people assume that those who live a 'better' (and what is better, anyhow? Is 'rich' better than being loved?) life are 'snobs'.  Well, plenty of snobs exist in all strata of life.  Anyone who thinks another group of people is somehow unacceptable is a 'snob'. 

I haven't even started all the arguments that are relevant to this very complex topic. 

 In the end, it is always unacceptable for people to be treated badly, and be so badly paid that they can't pay for housing and food (at least those two). 

The whole English system of wages needs to be re-designed.  Newly qualified teachers in England get less than a checkout chick at a supermarket does in Australia, in terms of spending power, but once you hit administration level (in English schools) the pay rockets through the roof. 

Now THAT's something to think about.  We are more concerned wth getting the paperwork right than in caring for the teachers at the font lines of teaching. 

I've said enough.

the watchman:

There is an old saying, 'Two wrongs don't make a right (as in correct)'.  I have taught in English schools and all I can say is, if something isn't done about the way teachers are treated and paid, you won't have any teachers soon. 

Same with farmers.  More & more food being imported from abroad and farmers being underpaid by supermarkets who rake in the profits.  Teachers are at least cushioned from the harsh realities of life  because they are paid by the taxpayer.  How well many would fare if they had to join the private sector and fight for every pay rise more vigorously than they do in the state sector where a sliding scale applies automatically would be interesting to see.

the watchman:

So we have people who attack others in taxis or hold up stores/banks etc ('I have a right to be as rich as the next bloke') and won't obey teh law (' I have a right to drive any way I want to', 'I have a right to not learn if I don't want to', etc).  The trouble is, the teachers are obliged to teach.  If the parents complain that Little Johnny isn't learning, it's the teacher's fault, because if Little Johnny hasn't learned, the teacher isn't a 'good teacher'.  That's the way the tstem work. 

And at one time adults supported one another.  If teachers thought Little Johnny was in need of discipline teachers administered it.  Nowadays that too is frowned upon and (some) parents march down to the school to demand recompense for their poor darling's distress at having to face the consequences of their actions - after all Little Johnny has a RIGHT to misbehave.

The whole English system of wages needs to be re-designed.  Newly qualified teachers in England get less than a checkout chick at a supermarket does in Australia, in terms of spending power, but once you hit administration level (in English schools) the pay rockets through the roof. 

Now THAT's something to think about.  We are more concerned wth getting the paperwork right than in caring for the teachers at the font lines of teaching. 

Quite right.  The bureaucrats seem to earn more than people who do the real work.  But I suppose it's all relative in the end.  I bet teachers (despite complaining they don't earn enough) have running hot water and central heating.  Some of us don't have even that luxury let alone holidays. And yes we too work hard for what we earn but what we earn is a drop in the ocean to what teachers (however disgruntled  they may feel) earn.

There,s no way i could do a teachers job because of the attitude of a lot of the kids today,and the fact they,re not allowed to disipline them in case they get mummy or the human rights on their backs,and i feel for them for this reason.But by the same token when they decide to go into this profession,they know what the pay is,they know what the hours are and they know what work is involved,so why spend all those years training and getting into debt and then whingeing about it.Yes they may have to work in the holidays but they still get a hell of a lot more than most people.I,ve got a friend who,s a teacher and she,s got three foreign holidays booked this year,there,s no way i could afford that,nor would i be able to get all that time off.So i say yes hold out for more authority to disipline the kids but please don,t complain about your wages or working day.

toppigglet:

I'm guessing you don't have children then. If you do, I'm sure you would be front of the que complaining if the teachers didn't put in every hour possible trying to ensure your child has a good education.

 May I suggest that you go and spend a couple of weeks shadowing a teacher in a primary school. After that if you think you could do a better job, I'd be very suprised! The grief from children which can be very disheartening, 12 hour days in school, the marking and planning done when you get home, weekends and holidays taken up on assessment and making resources, ensuring you have planned and got all you need to support the more and less able, dealing with children that do not speak English, planning for TA's, writing assemblies, attending staff meetings, running clubs....need I go on. We don't turn up at 9.00 and go home at 3.30 as you might think!

Glorified childminder? How narrow minded!!

hi, i agree with you, and its not just about the money, i wouldnt be a teacher whatever the wage, in this day and age..the amount of abuse they recieve from unruly yobs ( as do other public sector workers)...bring back corporal punishment.... and a note to Rosie, stop taking in stray cats and maybe think about fostering  needy children.. or maybe not. you sound very bitter.

I'll try one last time to reply and if this fails I'll assume I've been banned from the boards. 

Firstly, I would like to say that whatever I do in my own time is my business and none of yours kendra. 

Secondly, I should think there are many teachers, like parents, who are more concerned with being "mates" with kids than actually teaching them something and as such discipline seems secondary to these people.