RaggedEdge:

anametoremember:

RaggedEdge:

nicekim:

We are talking about track where Massa were on next level upwards even compared to M.Schumacher.

Is this statement in preperation for the event that Massa outclasses Kimi, yet again...?

I never recall any expectation of Massa dominating Schumacher at any track... this phenomina seems to have come about after Kimi failed to beat Massa on a fairly consistent basis...

RE are you a Gemini

What traits do Gemini's have that would relate to me?

I'm a Virgo, and this is what I found out about it:

"Virgo: You are blessed with an eye for detail that many would love to possess."

Well you remind of my brother who never gives up, restless, loves technology, needs more, aggrivates and teases peoples and enjoys doing it, likes a joke, not bothered; then can be bothered and doesnt listen to anyone else...does that sum you up?

Here is a paragraph I got of online about a Gemini from Kelly's stars signs.

Gemini's have amazing brains. They store data like you wouldn't believe. Lots of people think they talk garbage but this is because their minds move faster than their mouth. Gemini's are generous, affectionate and impulsive and hate hanging around. Boredom and relaxing frightens them. If they're not on the move they go mad. They are great with kids because they never grow up themselves. If you have a Gemini friend, life will never be dull. They love to be respected; this is pretty hard because they're so changeable. In fact, they are often prone to losing their train of thought mid sentence. They're practical jokers too, but can get aggravated if someone turns the trick on them.

I am not into stars signs, much (slightly more relgious than that) but you remind me of my brother ALOT. The only thing I would say is that you never lose your trail of thought lol that is one thing you are not guilty of.

RaggedEdge:

Massa out qualified Kimi in Oz, but both failed to do anything in the race.

Both had bad race, but Kimi were all the time faster driver out of the two; Kimi scored point, Massa didn't. 

Massa out qualified Kimi in Malaysia and on team orders, had to give up the win.

Well as long as nobody provides anything supporting this team order claim and when you keep ignoring any provided thing that indicates that there weren't team orders at play.. well that should convince people that there weren't team orders at play.

Why do you bother?  

Massa also admitted on Brazilian TV that he would have won in Brazil 2007 had it not been for team orders...

Another claim that you repeat.There are few things that you refuse to answer:
a) Where can we find this story so we could check it?
b) If you can't provide that info then how did you came across that?

People won't believe your claims just because you make them. 

nicekim:

RaggedEdge:

Massa out qualified Kimi in Oz, but both failed to do anything in the race.

Both had bad race, but Kimi were all the time faster driver out of the two; Kimi scored point, Massa didn't. 

Massa out qualified Kimi in Malaysia and on team orders, had to give up the win.

Well as long as nobody provides anything supporting this team order claim and when you keep ignoring any provided thing that indicates that there weren't team orders at play.. well that should convince people that there weren't team orders at play.

Why do you bother?  

Massa also admitted on Brazilian TV that he would have won in Brazil 2007 had it not been for team orders...

Another claim that you repeat.There are few things that you refuse to answer:
a) Where can we find this story so we could check it?
b) If you can't provide that info then how did you came across that?

People won't believe your claims just because you make them. 

You can deny team orders all you want, but until I get evidence to prove it wasn't the case, I'm perfectly happy to accept Massa helped Kimi out of a hole in Brazil 2007 and Malaysia...

I'm sure Massa would have done the same in Spain, given Hamilton was too close for comfort...

In fact, given the team order history, it makes me wonder if Massa was kept behind Kimi as a safety measure in Spain...

I'm convinced by Kimi's peal valley performances at all...

anametoremember:

RaggedEdge:

anametoremember:

RaggedEdge:

nicekim:

We are talking about track where Massa were on next level upwards even compared to M.Schumacher.

Is this statement in preperation for the event that Massa outclasses Kimi, yet again...?

I never recall any expectation of Massa dominating Schumacher at any track... this phenomina seems to have come about after Kimi failed to beat Massa on a fairly consistent basis...

RE are you a Gemini

What traits do Gemini's have that would relate to me?

I'm a Virgo, and this is what I found out about it:

"Virgo: You are blessed with an eye for detail that many would love to possess."

Well you remind of my brother who never gives up, restless, loves technology, needs more, aggrivates and teases peoples and enjoys doing it, likes a joke, not bothered; then can be bothered and doesnt listen to anyone else...does that sum you up?

Here is a paragraph I got of online about a Gemini from Kelly's stars signs.

Gemini's have amazing brains. They store data like you wouldn't believe. Lots of people think they talk garbage but this is because their minds move faster than their mouth. Gemini's are generous, affectionate and impulsive and hate hanging around. Boredom and relaxing frightens them. If they're not on the move they go mad. They are great with kids because they never grow up themselves. If you have a Gemini friend, life will never be dull. They love to be respected; this is pretty hard because they're so changeable. In fact, they are often prone to losing their train of thought mid sentence. They're practical jokers too, but can get aggravated if someone turns the trick on them.

I am not into stars signs, much (slightly more relgious than that) but you remind me of my brother ALOT. The only thing I would say is that you never lose your trail of thought lol that is one thing you are not guilty of.

 

Yes, he's like a dog with a bone!

I'm going with Ferrari, I think Massa might shine there.

RaggedEdge:

You can deny team orders all you want, but until I get evidence to prove it wasn't the case, I'm perfectly happy to accept Massa helped Kimi out of a hole in Brazil 2007 and Malaysia...

 

a) Kimi has had record for being relatively faster in race than in qualifying..even before joining Ferrari
b) Kimi has been better in race than he was in qualifying now three times this season
c) Kimi followed Massa easily
b) Kimi had longer stint
c) Usually always guy lighter car will go faster than guy with heavy car..even if that guy with heavy car would have new tyres
d) Before Massa pitted their difference were small, nothing weird there
e) This same kind of thing happens often, but somehow only when Kimi is involved it's about team orders. For example when M.Schumacher har Exactly same kind of situation where he did few fast laps and then overtook someone during pitstops..nobody (most likely not even you) screamed "team orders"
f) There's nothing indicating that it was team orders 

Now before you start to answer:
c) and d)  Don't say that Massa were slowing down on purpose or he really had more fuel, if you don't have anything to support those claims. Without support those claims would just be "ad hoc"-arguments which has no argumentational value what so ever

e) I hope that you don't use the original claim to justify the original claim. The original claim is that Kimi wouldn't be fast enough and that needs to be proven. 

I'm sure Massa would have done the same in Spain, given Hamilton was too close for comfort..

In fact, given the team order history, it makes me wonder if Massa was kept behind Kimi as a safety measure in Spain...

Problem is Bahrain where they could have done that easily.  I remember that you said during that period between Bahrain and Spain that Ferrari would have realised how fast Massa is and that they shouldn't do that team order thing anymore. If they would have realised that Massa is the real WDC contender they could have used team orders to slow Kimi. 

So you changed your conspiracy theory once more, there were no proof then and there ain't now, but that doesn't stop you

stigotdump:

Whoever Bernie want's to win!

Or am I being a little too cynical?

Bernie always wins from the great fees his companies charge circuits for priverlage of putting on F1, unless of course its Monaco!!!! 

Despite that, you have to give Ecclestone credit for helping out super Aguri and enabling them to race in Spain. Thanks Bernie! I hope he can help secure the team long term - and find a 12th team. 

People who think Massa got overtaken by Raikkonen in Brazil by just raw pace must be abit delerious and can't handle the truth. I think he should have won it and Massa being a nice guy and driver let him past as a sign of respect.

xlabratx:

People who think Massa got overtaken by Raikkonen in Brazil by just raw pace must be abit delerious and can't handle the truth.

Well that was a strong argument
 

[All of your points assume team orders were not executed...

If you factor in team orders, it perfectly explains why a lack of qualifying pace does not direcly correlate to race results.

RaggedEdge:

[All of your points assume team orders were not executed...

If you factor in team orders, it perfectly explains why a lack of qualifying pace does not direcly correlate to race results.

Well, team orders are one reason to explain different results in the race than in qualifying. But there are many more reasons which explain the same difference, so one have to prove why it would be qualifying and not different fuel load, to name one of the many reasons. Just assuming team orders is not sufficient. 

justrace:

RaggedEdge:

[All of your points assume team orders were not executed...

If you factor in team orders, it perfectly explains why a lack of qualifying pace does not direcly correlate to race results.

Well, team orders are one reason to explain different results in the race than in qualifying. But there are many more reasons which explain the same difference, so one have to prove why it would be qualifying and not different fuel load, to name one of the many reasons. Just assuming team orders is not sufficient. 

Even if you include fuel loads, Massa's qualifying pace is better, therefore it reinforces the idea of team orders, and Massa's own statement on team orders all rings true.

RaggedEdge:

[All of your points assume team orders were not executed...

Yes what about all my points that indicated team orders were not executed? You just again ignored them and most likely you will again soon ask them..

If you factor in team orders, it perfectly explains why a lack of qualifying pace does not direcly correlate to race results.

So you really though it was good idea to claim that team orders have been traditionally used to favor Kimi during his McLaren and Ferrari time, after you failed to provide anything supporting that these orders were used even once to favor him and after simply ignoring everything that would point to other way? 

Well problem with this theory is that it still needs to be proven..since there are other options like Kimi is just not that good on one single lap, but can keep that relatively good pace for long time. You know there are drivers who have traditionally been good in qualifying, but not in race. For example Trulli and Webber. And those who have been better in race than qualifying (M. Schumacher). So why Kimi would have to be neutral in this way?

 

justrace:

Just assuming team orders is not sufficient. 

For a person who thinks that his claim is valid argument until proven otherwise just because that claim was made..it is sufficient