You're safe Stevesixty7!  At least SOME of us on here happily accept the fact that we all have a right to our opinions and are also happy to accept that we can disagree without having a slanging match!

The reason I think that Nelson Snr WAS a great driver was his supreme technical ability.  He could take a complete dog of a car and still manage to get a decent race out of it.  He could truly have been the world's best mechanic!!  He also had the ability to keep a car moving when many others would have given up.  He wasn't just a driver, he was the complete package.  The cars at that time were horribly unreliable and the reason he  won 3 WDCs with so few actual wins again comes back to his ability to nurse a sick car round well enough to get some points.  As you know, I still rate him very highly - if he'd been around now I think he'd be dominant.

By the time MS came along Nelson was on the way down and looking to moving on anyway.  Like many of the older drivers I think the 'hunger' had gone.

I also STILL think that Nelson Jnr has the potential,  NOT because he's Nelson Snr's son but because he's a good driver in his own right - he just needs to settle in and find his feet. I think he had a fair drive today, didn't finish far off last but he DID finish (!) and had quite a nice little race at the back there.

GreyKitten:

You're safe Stevesixty7!  At least SOME of us on here happily accept the fact that we all have a right to our opinions and are also happy to accept that we can disagree without having a slanging match!

The reason I think that Nelson Snr WAS a great driver was his supreme technical ability.  He could take a complete dog of a car and still manage to get a decent race out of it.  He could truly have been the world's best mechanic!!  He also had the ability to keep a car moving when many others would have given up.  He wasn't just a driver, he was the complete package.  The cars at that time were horribly unreliable and the reason he  won 3 WDCs with so few actual wins again comes back to his ability to nurse a sick car round well enough to get some points.  As you know, I still rate him very highly - if he'd been around now I think he'd be dominant.

By the time MS came along Nelson was on the way down and looking to moving on anyway.  Like many of the older drivers I think the 'hunger' had gone.

I also STILL think that Nelson Jnr has the potential,  NOT because he's Nelson Snr's son but because he's a good driver in his own right - he just needs to settle in and find his feet. I think he had a fair drive today, didn't finish far off last but he DID finish (!) and had quite a nice little race at the back there.

Nice post. Why can't we all converse like this?

Regarding Nelson Jnr, I think Alonso may have something to do with his performances at the moment, the last thing he wants is to be shown up by a rookie again. Do you think Alonso is not sharing data, or Piquet just can't nail it?

Stevesixty7:

GreyKitten:

You're safe Stevesixty7!  At least SOME of us on here happily accept the fact that we all have a right to our opinions and are also happy to accept that we can disagree without having a slanging match!

The reason I think that Nelson Snr WAS a great driver was his supreme technical ability.  He could take a complete dog of a car and still manage to get a decent race out of it.  He could truly have been the world's best mechanic!!  He also had the ability to keep a car moving when many others would have given up.  He wasn't just a driver, he was the complete package.  The cars at that time were horribly unreliable and the reason he  won 3 WDCs with so few actual wins again comes back to his ability to nurse a sick car round well enough to get some points.  As you know, I still rate him very highly - if he'd been around now I think he'd be dominant.

By the time MS came along Nelson was on the way down and looking to moving on anyway.  Like many of the older drivers I think the 'hunger' had gone.

I also STILL think that Nelson Jnr has the potential,  NOT because he's Nelson Snr's son but because he's a good driver in his own right - he just needs to settle in and find his feet. I think he had a fair drive today, didn't finish far off last but he DID finish (!) and had quite a nice little race at the back there.

Nice post. Why can't we all converse like this?

Regarding Nelson Jnr, I think Alonso may have something to do with his performances at the moment, the last thing he wants is to be shown up by a rookie again. Do you think Alonso is not sharing data, or Piquet just can't nail it?

Probably a bit of both.  I'm pretty sure that he'll have been getting a lot of help from dad on car set up while he's been with Piquet Racing - but I can't somehow imagine Flavio Briatorre welcoming NP Snr's presence in the garage, NP can be pretty spiky when he wants to be - he's no Anthony Hamilton!! 

Junior'll have got good experience while testing but it's still not the same as setting up your own race car - I'm sure that'll come though, but it'll take at least a season.  As for Alonso - who knows?!  I must admit if I was him, taking last season into consideration, I'd be keeping my cards pretty close to my chest!!  I hope he is really, it'll be better for Jnr in the long run if he learns his craft for himself and becomes more self reliant.

Well Greykitten, not only is Alonso NOT sharing (once bitten twice shy) Piquet is obviously not getting the same attention Alonso is in the garage..this is obvious, no matter if Piquet is strugglying with the experience of not being able to set up his car, I dont think he is getting the adaquate help from his team in a way an equal status driver would get.....lets face it Alonso hated it with Hamilton. When one struggles with their car they will make mistakes! And it is a great shame he is being impeded for someones ego.

GreyKitten:

Stevesixty7:

GreyKitten:

You're safe Stevesixty7!  At least SOME of us on here happily accept the fact that we all have a right to our opinions and are also happy to accept that we can disagree without having a slanging match!

The reason I think that Nelson Snr WAS a great driver was his supreme technical ability.  He could take a complete dog of a car and still manage to get a decent race out of it.  He could truly have been the world's best mechanic!!  He also had the ability to keep a car moving when many others would have given up.  He wasn't just a driver, he was the complete package.  The cars at that time were horribly unreliable and the reason he  won 3 WDCs with so few actual wins again comes back to his ability to nurse a sick car round well enough to get some points.  As you know, I still rate him very highly - if he'd been around now I think he'd be dominant.

By the time MS came along Nelson was on the way down and looking to moving on anyway.  Like many of the older drivers I think the 'hunger' had gone.

I also STILL think that Nelson Jnr has the potential,  NOT because he's Nelson Snr's son but because he's a good driver in his own right - he just needs to settle in and find his feet. I think he had a fair drive today, didn't finish far off last but he DID finish (!) and had quite a nice little race at the back there.

Nice post. Why can't we all converse like this?

Regarding Nelson Jnr, I think Alonso may have something to do with his performances at the moment, the last thing he wants is to be shown up by a rookie again. Do you think Alonso is not sharing data, or Piquet just can't nail it?

Probably a bit of both.  I'm pretty sure that he'll have been getting a lot of help from dad on car set up while he's been with Piquet Racing - but I can't somehow imagine Flavio Briatorre welcoming NP Snr's presence in the garage, NP can be pretty spiky when he wants to be - he's no Anthony Hamilton!! 

Junior'll have got good experience while testing but it's still not the same as setting up your own race car - I'm sure that'll come though, but it'll take at least a season.  As for Alonso - who knows?!  I must admit if I was him, taking last season into consideration, I'd be keeping my cards pretty close to my chest!!  I hope he is really, it'll be better for Jnr in the long run if he learns his craft for himself and becomes more self reliant.

The only worry for Piquet Jnr would be his stock value going down. I wouldn't like to see this happen, ok I wasn't a big fan of his dad but a promising young driver like him should be getting support from his team mate, Alonso is so worried about his own value because of last year, he may be compromising the future of this young lad.

In my opinion some of you are missing the point. alonso is simply more motivated and driven to succeed at reneult. you can tell right now he is giving 100% in his driving to help the team and they are giving 100% to improve the car because of their belief in him. if u put hamilton in a reneult i dont think he would do much better than piquet on raw pace (maybe make less mistakes). the car is suited and built to alonso's style and there's not much piquet can do about it but stay consistant and do the best job for the team. at the moment hes trying to hard to match alonso and is making mistakes at crucial times. Fisi is a world class driver and he was in the exact same (not ideal) situation as piquet but he just accepted it and did his job. thats what piquet needs to do. earn racing experience and respect from the team this season and in the future when he has this, try to match alonso. however piquet knows hes as good as hamilton so it must be very frustrating for him right now.

r1latty:

In my opinion some of you are missing the point. alonso is simply more motivated and driven to succeed at reneult. you can tell right now he is giving 100% in his driving to help the team and they are giving 100% to improve the car because of their belief in him. if u put hamilton in a reneult i dont think he would do much better than piquet on raw pace (maybe make less mistakes). the car is suited and built to alonso's style and there's not much piquet can do about it but stay consistant and do the best job for the team. at the moment hes trying to hard to match alonso and is making mistakes at crucial times. Fisi is a world class driver and he was in the exact same (not ideal) situation as piquet but he just accepted it and did his job. thats what piquet needs to do. earn racing experience and respect from the team this season and in the future when he has this, try to match alonso. however piquet knows hes as good as hamilton so it must be very frustrating for him right now.

I think it's fairly obvious that Alonso is giving his all at Renault, it's his career (and his not inconsiderable pay packet!) after all.  Renault most certainly will be developing the car around him at present, they'd be mad to do anything else - however, if Piquet has some decent input I'm sure it'll be taken into account.  I think that Piquet is probably well aware of the situation and what he needs to do, he will also have his race engineer and his team to advise him.  Your greatest rival is always your team mate and I don't think any of the drivers would be under any illusions about that!

I doubt that he'll be comparing himself to Hamilton, he'll be comparing himself to his own expectations and will be frustrated that he's not making the start he hoped for. 

Hamilton in a Renault? - I'd expect him to be nearer to Alonso than to Piquet.  By this time next season I expect Piquet will be competitive with Alonso (assuming he's still at Renault).

 

r1latty:

In my opinion some of you are missing the point. alonso is simply more motivated and driven to succeed at reneult. you can tell right now he is giving 100% in his driving to help the team and they are giving 100% to improve the car because of their belief in him. if u put hamilton in a reneult i dont think he would do much better than piquet on raw pace (maybe make less mistakes). the car is suited and built to alonso's style and there's not much piquet can do about it but stay consistant and do the best job for the team. at the moment hes trying to hard to match alonso and is making mistakes at crucial times. Fisi is a world class driver and he was in the exact same (not ideal) situation as piquet but he just accepted it and did his job. thats what piquet needs to do. earn racing experience and respect from the team this season and in the future when he has this, try to match alonso. however piquet knows hes as good as hamilton so it must be very frustrating for him right now.

Neither here nor there if Hamilton could handle that Renault, seen as how he throw the McLaren who were inferior to Ferrari today ABOUT, I think he could adapt to that Renault sooner or later. However, Piquet is being impeded end off!

r1latty:

In my opinion some of you are missing the point. alonso is simply more motivated and driven to succeed at reneult. you can tell right now he is giving 100% in his driving to help the team and they are giving 100% to improve the car because of their belief in him. if u put hamilton in a reneult i dont think he would do much better than piquet on raw pace (maybe make less mistakes). the car is suited and built to alonso's style and there's not much piquet can do about it but stay consistant and do the best job for the team. at the moment hes trying to hard to match alonso and is making mistakes at crucial times. Fisi is a world class driver and he was in the exact same (not ideal) situation as piquet but he just accepted it and did his job. thats what piquet needs to do. earn racing experience and respect from the team this season and in the future when he has this, try to match alonso. however piquet knows hes as good as hamilton so it must be very frustrating for him right now.

Then Alonso would want out. He was frightened last year, not used to it.

Stevesixty7:

r1latty:

In my opinion some of you are missing the point. alonso is simply more motivated and driven to succeed at reneult. you can tell right now he is giving 100% in his driving to help the team and they are giving 100% to improve the car because of their belief in him. if u put hamilton in a reneult i dont think he would do much better than piquet on raw pace (maybe make less mistakes). the car is suited and built to alonso's style and there's not much piquet can do about it but stay consistant and do the best job for the team. at the moment hes trying to hard to match alonso and is making mistakes at crucial times. Fisi is a world class driver and he was in the exact same (not ideal) situation as piquet but he just accepted it and did his job. thats what piquet needs to do. earn racing experience and respect from the team this season and in the future when he has this, try to match alonso. however piquet knows hes as good as hamilton so it must be very frustrating for him right now.

Then Alonso would want out. He was frightened last year, not used to it.

That is true, Alonso didnt do a runner back to Renault to fight in a midtable car for nothing, he ran scared, he isnt the first or last driver to hate his team mate with a passion. But i do think he will improve the car with his team, and I do think they will be up there very soon. but he still is impeding Piquet, and I hope he can get himself out of that team very soon, or we could have another Reubens or Fisi on our hands!

Anyone remember last year Kovalinen started the season terribly, You have to remember he is a rookie he needs time to get used to the car - all drivers that dont get seats in mclaren in their first season need time to adapt. I reckon he will begin to speed up and should be getting descent results in the second part of the season

michael91:

Anyone remember last year Kovalinen started the season terribly, You have to remember he is a rookie he needs time to get used to the car - all drivers that dont get seats in mclaren in their first season need time to adapt. I reckon he will begin to speed up and should be getting descent results in the second part of the season

I would agree with you up until the fact that he signed a number two contract, and Renault arent putting in the same effort they put into Alonso's car, its soooo obvious...but hey he signed the contract and he is in F1 after all!

michael91:

Anyone remember last year Kovalinen started the season terribly, You have to remember he is a rookie he needs time to get used to the car - all drivers that dont get seats in mclaren in their first season need time to adapt. I reckon he will begin to speed up and should be getting descent results in the second part of the season

This is true.  Also applies to Bourdais, from whom we expected great things, and Vettel, who I am sure will come good - anyone who saw that young lad drive at ROC can have no doubts about his ability!

I think that the Hamilton effect has given us over-optimistic expectations of rookie drivers.  It would not surprise me in a few years time to see Piquet and Vettel fighting Hamilton for the championship!!