franger:

briscafan:

peedie88:

Life is too short for me to find this info out but if you could find out averages over the last two years I believe that would be a fairer comparison. Averages can be and normally are incredibly misleading. I am now going back to cutting the back grass with some nail scissors as I feel that would be time better spent than wotking that out

Your wish is my command! - I'm retired so have a bit of time to check the facts and don't have to resort to snide comments about drivers/teams or wild assumptions

2007

Kimi    6.47,   Lewis/Fernando  6.41,   Philipe    5.53,   Nick    3.65,   Robert  2.50 (only 16 races, not 17)

2008

Lewis     5.53,   Philippe   5.12,   Robert   4.41,   KImi   4.06,   Nick  3.53,   Fernando   3.12

The point is that at this stage of his career, Lewis is matching/beating established drivers with more experience than him. 

As for the claim that the other drivers drove uncompetative cars so wouldn't have such good averages, why were they in poorer cars? Simply because at this stage of their careers they didn't show the same amount of talent, although with experience thay have now reached the top. (Didn't Sauber drop Philipe after his first season in F1 and leave him out for a year before re-instating him?)

I'm not saying that LH is the best ever but he does show a lot of potential for even better  performances in the future

 

    

Because there are only 4 top cars in a normal season and several new guys were coming into the sport at the same time!

Much as I think Lewis shows enormous potential you still cannot make a comparison with Alonso at that stage of his career.  He was in a Minardi and showed huge potential in a car that had no chance of winning races or even getting points most of the time.

I'm pretty sure Lewis would have too, but we will never know.  I am not saying any of them were better or worse.

As for Phillipe at Sauber, he showed imense speed but was a bit erratic to say the least and was probably dropped because Sauber couldn't afford the repair bills.

Lewis Hamilton will not become the new Senna or Schumacher.  He will be Lewis Hamilton and he may go on to beat the records of  previous drivers.  Even the supposedly arrogant (in other peoples eyes, not mine) Michael Schumacher said that his surpassing the achievements of Fangio, Clark, etc could not be compared because the dangers and conditions those drivers faced were completely different.

I must be in a parallel universe again because i cant remember Alonso driving a Minardi.

also Lewis isn't the only driver to start in a good team what about Coulthard at Williams and also Button at Williams. 

Firstly Thank you for working that out.

 This argument about starting carrers in better cars is a little bit of an awkward one. The difference in a lot of drivers career starts and Hamiltons career start is that not only did LH start in a championship winning car he grew up with it and has done (more than likely) hundreds of thousands of miles in a simulator and as soon as he was able/allowed hundreds of thousands of miles in a Mclaren on a test track or somewhere. Whilst a lot of drivers get the oppotunity to practice and test name me one who has had years and years of time to practice and the same opportunities that LH has hads. Whilst I am not knocking the fact HE took oppotunity or his talent I think we do have to take into account the way 99% of other drivers have entered the sport. i.e paying drives, competing for the seat or staritng in a team with a thirty milion dollar budget instead of a three hundred million dollar budget. Personally I don't like the way he has entered the sport because I don't want it to go that way that the only way for a driver to get into F1 is to get in at 9yrs old and become a product of that company. The smaller teams don't have the financial ability to take care of such youngsters and tie them in.

steam powered f1:

franger:

briscafan:

peedie88:

Life is too short for me to find this info out but if you could find out averages over the last two years I believe that would be a fairer comparison. Averages can be and normally are incredibly misleading. I am now going back to cutting the back grass with some nail scissors as I feel that would be time better spent than wotking that out

Your wish is my command! - I'm retired so have a bit of time to check the facts and don't have to resort to snide comments about drivers/teams or wild assumptions

2007

Kimi    6.47,   Lewis/Fernando  6.41,   Philipe    5.53,   Nick    3.65,   Robert  2.50 (only 16 races, not 17)

2008

Lewis     5.53,   Philippe   5.12,   Robert   4.41,   KImi   4.06,   Nick  3.53,   Fernando   3.12

The point is that at this stage of his career, Lewis is matching/beating established drivers with more experience than him. 

As for the claim that the other drivers drove uncompetative cars so wouldn't have such good averages, why were they in poorer cars? Simply because at this stage of their careers they didn't show the same amount of talent, although with experience thay have now reached the top. (Didn't Sauber drop Philipe after his first season in F1 and leave him out for a year before re-instating him?)

I'm not saying that LH is the best ever but he does show a lot of potential for even better  performances in the future

 

    

Because there are only 4 top cars in a normal season and several new guys were coming into the sport at the same time!

Much as I think Lewis shows enormous potential you still cannot make a comparison with Alonso at that stage of his career.  He was in a Minardi and showed huge potential in a car that had no chance of winning races or even getting points most of the time.

I'm pretty sure Lewis would have too, but we will never know.  I am not saying any of them were better or worse.

As for Phillipe at Sauber, he showed imense speed but was a bit erratic to say the least and was probably dropped because Sauber couldn't afford the repair bills.

Lewis Hamilton will not become the new Senna or Schumacher.  He will be Lewis Hamilton and he may go on to beat the records of  previous drivers.  Even the supposedly arrogant (in other peoples eyes, not mine) Michael Schumacher said that his surpassing the achievements of Fangio, Clark, etc could not be compared because the dangers and conditions those drivers faced were completely different.

I must be in a parallel universe again because i cant remember Alonso driving a Minardi.

also Lewis isn't the only driver to start in a good team what about Coulthard at Williams and also Button at Williams. 

Here we go again.  This is why non-Lewis fans get exasperated and end up being called bashers.

Read my post.  I have not said anything against the Sainted One.  All I said was that you cannot compare him against drivers who started their careers in lesser machinery as there are never enough top cars around.

Alonso drove for Minardi in 2001, his first season.  I think he qualified seventh or something like that in his first GP though because of reliabilty issues he failed to score points during that season.  He impressed enough for several top teams to want him and went to Renault.  He is the youngest WDC and youngest Double WDC so that is a good target for Lewis to aim for.

Lewis can be compared to DC and JB as they did have top cars on debut and he comes out looking pretty good compared to them.  DC was definitely a number two driver though.

I have underlined for you the parts of my post praising Lewis and one where I critisise PM even though I am a self confessed Ferrari fan.

glitsy:

Personally I think this overpaid arrogant little boy racer should be thrown out of formula one before somebody gets killed by his totally reckless behaviour behind the wheel.

Ihave followed F1 for more years than I care to remember and to hear Lewis Hamiltons name compared to the likes of Ayrton Senna & Michael Shumacher is ludicrous in the extreme I would not trust him with a Reliant Robin.

My point was proved earlier this year when he crashed into the back of a Ferarri showing the world he didnt know a red light means STOP.

I personally look forward to a day without Lewis Hamilton trying to drive a gloryfied German taxi around the worlds race circuits.

Please MASSA beat this child on Sunday and shut this cocky arrogant bighead up  once & for all

YAAAAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNN

You must be one of those red car glory supporters!!!!!!

AM SORRY TO TELL YOU THIS MASSA LOST THE CHAMPIONSHIP

I FEEL FOR YOU MY FRIEND

Much as I think Lewis shows enormous potential you still cannot make a comparison with Alonso at that stage of his career.  He was in a Minardi and showed huge potential in a car that had no chance of winning races or even getting points most of the time.

quote- lh beat alonzo in his first season he is a lot better than him

f1.petrolhead:

  THATS MASSA . LEWIS WAS A LITTLE BOY NOW HES MAN AND A WORLD CHAMPION.  YOUR JUST ANOTHER ARMCHAIR EXPERT WHO CANT STAND HOW TALENTED HE IS YOU'VE GOT TO BE SINGLE MINDED IN THIS SPORT HE'E HEADSTRONG AND CONFIDENT NOT ARROGANT. SO NOT BAD FOR A LITTLE BOY IN A ROBIN RELIANT ZZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM EH HATER.

People don't hate Hamilton, they reserve that feeling for you. 

smarty:

glitsy:

Personally I think this overpaid arrogant little boy racer should be thrown out of formula one before somebody gets killed by his totally reckless behaviour behind the wheel.

Ihave followed F1 for more years than I care to remember and to hear Lewis Hamiltons name compared to the likes of Ayrton Senna & Michael Shumacher is ludicrous in the extreme I would not trust him with a Reliant Robin.

My point was proved earlier this year when he crashed into the back of a Ferarri showing the world he didnt know a red light means STOP.

I personally look forward to a day without Lewis Hamilton trying to drive a gloryfied German taxi around the worlds race circuits.

Please MASSA beat this child on Sunday and shut this cocky arrogant bighead up  once & for all

YAAAAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNN

You must be one of those red car glory supporters!!!!!!

 I couldnt agree more 'smarty'. I dont see how you can be so derogatory about Hamilton. I believe Michael Schumacher was a brilliant driver, he must have been to have won 7 championships. But even in his career he has made mistakes and taken actions that many would call reckless even if they were done purposely. I am not comparing Hamilton to Ayrton or Michael, but give the guy a chance, he almost won the championship in his first season, dusnt that say a lot! Hes worked tirelessly like many other drivers to get to this stage in his career and he sure hasnt done it from losing races!

Everyone in life is entitled to reap the benefits of what they sow. And you cant argue with that.

And what is it that makes Hamilton a 'cocky, arrogant bighead' ? I would love to know. And think before you speak this time!

Hello,

By any chance, did anyone watch the itv season review in december. I am looking for the rock music at the end of the show. Well not quite a review but kind of. I think the title was Lewis world champion but im not sure. I hope someone here can help me. I am looking for the rock music at the end of the show.

I've been a fan of, and watched F1 for a number of years but don't support any one driver or any one team, I just love watching it all.

As far as Louis Hamilton is concerned I can understand the polarized views and I agree that you cannot escape the fact that he has been extremely lucky because I believe that you have to be a great driver in a great car before you can be a winner.  There are other great drivers who, had they been given a Mclaren last year, would have been just a capable of winning the world championship.

For instance, had LH been in the Honda and Button in the McLaren, would LH have won the championship?

There are so many ifs and buts?  Yes LH is a great driver but he's not the best out there.

nostalgicist:

franger:

First of all calling McLaren a British team is a bit inaccurate.  Founded by a New Zealander and the modern team is mostly owned by German and Arab concerns.

Spot on - but that's no good to a Hamilton sycophant, it doesn't support all this 'patriot' tripe.

franger:

Alonso was at Minardi which, to put it kindly, hardly had the pace of even the worst cars McLaren have built and he's not that far behind in your average points comparison.

... or, to put it another way, if Hamilton had spent a few seasons inhaling exhaust fumes following the pack in a Honda his averages wouldn't be anything like as impressive as they're clearly going to be starting off in a top car. Yes, the reason he has a top drive is down to recognition of his potential - but that doesn't change the 'averages' argument.

 

peedie88:

Averages can be and normally are incredibly misleading.

 

... Pah! - who cares about misleading as long as it makes your guy look good.

 

      It will take more than just averages for LH to look good for a while or two