Actually insofar as doctors are concerned, it's more likely to be a skills shortage rather than positive discrimination leading to an increasing number of immigrant doctors (and for that matter nurses) in the NHS. But aside from doctors' migration to private practice where they can earn more and an increasing ageing population we need doctors from abroad because we have an increasing immigrant population putting demands on the health service. 

 

 

Where skills are in short supply why not invest in the UK population rather than relying on people from abroad particularly as there have been reports that certain African nations are complaining that we're poaching their best doctors.  Makes more sense to train up the resident population to fill skills' shortage rather than pay for them to be unemployed but (perish the thought) maybe it's cheaper to employ immigrants.

The old argument that immigrants are doing the job that people in this country refuse to do is an empty argument.

People in this country are refusing not because the work is too menial for them but because a decent days wage for a decent days work is not being offered and is keeping them on the breadline so much so that they may as well be claiming benefits. 

Who wants to take on work which doesnt pay.  So, the employers go to countries where they will work for peanuts because their standard of living is atrocious and because they need to stay in England they work very hard for half the pay but in so doing take away wages from English people that are prepared to do the job for a fair wage.  You can see why they are angry.  Most working class people in this country will work God's hours and do their very best but not if they are not appreciated.

But forget about the economy for a moment.  This country changed when the Govt. allowed too many immigrants to live here so that the indiginous population became transformed into an unrecognisable culture.  That should not be allowed to happen.  If people want to live inthis country they should follow our culture, our laws, our rules and respect our way of life.

 

Agree with everything you say in your first three paragraphs Susannah but on the matter of culture, has Britain ever had a united culture?  In terms of entertainment there has always been high and low art and poor people tend to produce more children than the rich.  In some ways culture has changed for the better - there was a time when having a child out of wedlock led to women being incarcarated in asylums.  Some may say the pendulum has swung too far the other way and women are now being rewarded for being single parents particularly as many children are the product of a number of different relationships but is that anything to do with immigration?  I suppose we did have a united culture in some ways - in that the fathers were breadwinners and mothers were housewives (unless you were filthy rich and didn't have to do a days' work in your life) but again is that change anything to do with immigration?

Do you feel safe walking out at night (and in some places during the day) on your own with all these race wars going on?  There are more cultural wars in our midst than you might imagine, and not just black against white. 

 Its a plain fact that different religions, cultures, creeds and colours bring more problems, fights and criminal activity (including drugs) than anything else into this country.  With all these different races living with their 'own rules, laws, religious teachings' how can you possibly say that our culture has been changed for the better? 

 None of us play by the same rules any more so no-one knows whose at risk, whose safe, or whats gonna happen next.

No, I don't feel safe walking about at night and in some places I am on edge during the day.   There are no Police on patrol now, a 999 call may be answered within 5 mins or in one case I know 5 days.   I was told of an armed robbery that took three weeks for the police to attend.   We can no longer trust to the Police for protection, they have targets which are much more important.   As for 'cultura' wars there seems two main ones, drugs and religion.   The drugs it seems it is mainly black on black, no problem fo myself, but, the religious war is Islam against the rest and I am one of 'the rest' and I am worried about my safety.   This present Nulabor government has turned its back on the british working clss and left it unprotected, it is seeking a place to feel wanted, needed and protected, and only one party is offering that to them.   Is it any wonder there voting figures have increased.   The main parties had better stsrt looking after there own or we could end up like Germany in the 1930s, the politicians, Labour in particular, are to blame for this.  

Theres bound to be many issues that the BNP stand for that I do not agree with and plenty more that I do.  I like what I read on their website and if its a load of lies they wont last long so why should we throw knives at them before they have had a chance to even speak let alone form a govt. 

I'm wondering if the BNP policies that are abhorrent to the indiginous and multi-cultural, ethnic minorities were adjusted to be fair to everyone if then more people would consider voting for them. 

Alot of their policies are just what this country needs so perhaps they will consider adjusting their policies to be in line with the British public feelings and those from ethnic minorities.  It is possible.

 

raging:

Please! just listen to yourself.

You cant get employed as a Doctor or Lawyer if not adequately qualified, it has absolutely nothing to do with positive discrimination - that is laughable.

so the increasing number of unemployed is all down to immigrants then is it? nothing to do with an economy in recession then?

That stretched NHS you are talking about would be alot more stretched if not for the health professionals employed from overseas.

It is the same old pardigms again and again, people complain and use received wisdom to back it up without really thinking about what they are actually complaining about.

raging, i have to disagree about the doctors because recenlty i saw a report about an immigrant doctor/nurse working in this country with absolutely ZERO qualifications. she supposidly got struck off but she was allowed nonetheless to work in an environment which she no experience or qualifications to be in. whereas the trainee doctors and nurses in this country who have done years in university for the job she had and had to prove their worth sort of to get anywhere on the employed list. its like when it comes to immigrants work is handed down on a silver platter no questions asked.

there was a lot of people before the recession becoming redunant it never started at the economy crashing. people were being laid off at one stage because owners could get workers for less. money that wouldnt even last a week in this country for one us after tax. because some immigrants you see dont pay their taxes so they work for peanuts because its all free money. talk about special treatment for immigrants? plus the dole gives some of us more wages than our actual jobs do so really is worth being an honest member of the community? -types- ............... "computer says noooo"

they are last i heard our organ banks which are supposed to be their for our people to save their lives when they need them are going to immigrants halfway around the globe? what?!? people who seed pills to save their life or prolong their deaths get the at most first years worth but anymore their life isnt worth it? even though theyve paid tax their whole lives. its a disgusting service it dont help the people its there to help it uses the exuses "we cant afford it" instead!

personally i know what im complaining about and that is the special treatment you get if ur not british by the british govenrment but what seems like the british people shunned out the way as if our feeling and our lives are not important at the moment and that must stop right there. no nation on this planet puts immigrants before its loyal hard working people, no country on this planet bows down and lets people walk all over them with the exception of the United Kingdom

 

I wish we had a prime minister like the one in Australia.  They are determined not to let other minorities, cultures, religions, creeds etc., dominate their kingdom.  They have seen first hand was pain, upset, fighting and crime it does when you upset the indiginous population of a country with others that do not live their lives the same way.

Why do we always have to bend over backwards to suit others.

If a religion doesnt want to eat pork, wants to take their shoes off, pray every 5 mins, cover themselves up, ban alcohol,

and stop their children from marrying outside their religion then what the hell are they doing in this country?  When you come over here you copy our way of life not your own. 

 

susanna foxtrot:

Do you feel safe walking out at night (and in some places during the day) on your own with all these race wars going on?  There are more cultural wars in our midst than you might imagine, and not just black against white. 

 Its a plain fact that different religions, cultures, creeds and colours bring more problems, fights and criminal activity (including drugs) than anything else into this country.  With all these different races living with their 'own rules, laws, religious teachings' how can you possibly say that our culture has been changed for the better? 

 None of us play by the same rules any more so no-one knows whose at risk, whose safe, or whats gonna happen next.

I live in a small town and there are no "race wars" here that I am aware of.  The trouble in this town seems more to do with a certain yob youth element who are all British white boys.  And in some respects yes the culture has changed for the better - people are more tolerant of other people's way of life - homosexuality is no longer illegal, unwed mothers are no longer placed in asylums and disabled people aren't placed in care homes out of sight of the public gaze but can, and are, employed in the workplace.  That said there are things which have changed for the worse - the fact that most people can get instant credit (which I seem to recall you thought was a good thing) is one of the reasons for the current economic downturn - people borrowing money that they cannot afford to pay back.  30-40 years ago, HP, as it was then known on, was frowned upon.  Many people weren't elligble for it and had to save to buy what they wanted.  I suspect people valued what they had more in those days because they had to wait until they could afford to buy things.  Now we live in a disposable society - if things break down more often than not they are dumped rather than repaired and a new item is bought instantly again on credit.  We're led to believe that we're more wealthy than we have ever been but how much of that is due to credit and because both people in a relationship work as opposed to one staying home taking care of the kids and the home?  Old people used to live with their relatives - now they're abandoned by their families and placed in homes when they can no longer look after themselves.   Many homes now have 2 cars causing more traffic congestion, more pollution, more frustration and more environmental destruction as more roads are built to deal with the increasing traffic.  Sunday mornings are blissful - it's possible to cross the road without having to press a traffic light button.  Like going back in time 30 years.  These are the ways I would say our culture has changed for the worse and I suppose the increased population ie immigration can, at least, be cited as causes for such changes but how much is down to greed.  We must all have cars and get what we want now rather than have to save for it? 

 

 

what really amkes me laugh is how people stand there and critise nations like russia and iran when as matter fact they need to look in the mirror. we hardly live in a free society. freedom of speech, privacy, opinion and choice yes we have them but theres always a "BUT" after those 3 words for example:  you freedom of choice BUT not if that choice harms yourself in some way, your have freedom of privacy BUT not when we want to put a camera up in the middle of the street and you have the freedom of speech BUT not if it could be interpretated wrongly by someone of a different skin colour or religion. see what i mean.

there no such thing as having freedom thats restricted. you either have freedom or u dont theres no buts freedom is what it means - being free. a restriction on your freedom destroys it all so u have no freedom. 

thinking of that countries russia and iran seem like heaven right about now. or maybe the haters are just jealous that freedom to live as what u are "a mammal" is available in the east but in the west its controlled thats what the war was probably over i reakon world domination basically of human rights

The "high-fliers" who consider themselves to be more sophisticated than your average working class "pleb" because they (the "high-fliers") have lived and worked abroad often look down their nose at people who have lived and worked in the same place all of their lives (I heard a "comedian" doing exactly this recently on a radio programme).  Such people have an affinity with the immigrants who likewise travel far from home but said immigrants are often those who can afford to travel and/or are so desperate they feel they have nothing to lose but to travel to "broaden their horizons".  The cult of individuality which means people put their own needs, wants, and desires above all else has led to broken homes, loss of the extended family and a lack of loyalty to place (even some seem apparently sentimental about their place of origin - witness the likes of Sean Connery and Paul McCartney who sentimentalise about their place of origin but are unwilling to live there!).  Is it any wonder there is no community feeling when we're all encouraged to be similarly aspirational, egocentric. selfish? 

susanna foxtrot:

I wish we had a prime minister like the one in Australia.  They are determined not to let other minorities, cultures, religions, creeds etc., dominate their kingdom.  They have seen first hand was pain, upset, fighting and crime it does when you upset the indiginous population of a country with others that do not live their lives the same way.

Why do we always have to bend over backwards to suit others.

If a religion doesnt want to eat pork, wants to take their shoes off, pray every 5 mins, cover themselves up, ban alcohol,

and stop their children from marrying outside their religion then what the hell are they doing in this country?  When you come over here you copy our way of life not your own. 

I have no problem with other people bringing their culture with them as long as it is within the law of the UK (i.e. polygamy being a case in point) and they don't attempt to convert me to their way of life.  What I do have a problem with is positive discrimination.

 

Im afraid you are well wide of the mark Rosiet on some issues.

 You live in a small town - go see the mothers who have lost sons because of race wars in other towns.

 People are no more tolerant of homosexuality than they were 50 years ago - they are forced to be now - the law says so - no choice in the matter.  

The worst thing that ever happened in our society was letting the disabled get care in the community - what that meant in reality was THE COMMUNITY was forced to look after them because the social services sure as hell dont!  They were looked after and felt safe in care homes .......now they are subjected to torture - its all to save money, and people do not  accept those with mental health problems - what made you think they did - have you got one living next door that you tend to daily?

Im talking about the different cultures that have emerged over the past 40 years - because there are so many immigrants now we dont recognise our own culture - weve lost it and the children of immigrants carry on as if they are back in their original country and that causes friction amonst the whites and various other ethnicities.   Not their fault, its the govts fault for not being stricter.

We used to be recognised as proud, intelligent, fair-minded, well-balanced, with class and distinction in the world, always played by the rules and ahead of most societies because of our fortitude and far thinking.  How would you describe a british person today?

Well I can only speak as I find and as I said where I live there are no race wars and the fact homosexuality is now legal, if not tolerated by all, is a plus imo. 

Not sure where I stand as regards care in the community.  Asylums seemed brutal places but, as you say, care in the community is not really "care" at all.  btw I was referring to physically disabled people who can and do function in the workplace.  At one time this would not have happened.  People with mental health problems however can also carve out a career for themselves (depending on the severity of their symptoms). 

As regards culture, I'm not really sure what British culture was?  High and low culture were never exactly similar.  "proud, intelligent, fair-minded, well-balanced, with class and distinction in the world"?  Were we ever fair minded when Britain forged it's reputation by conquering  and exploiting other nations?  Even the  British working class now have the temerity to question their "superiors".  Where will it all end?