justrace:

Of course Schumacher is the most successful. He won most trophies.

The question can be re-phrased to make Fangio the winner, like who is on average most successful, or who won most in the shortest time.

There are also the other posts who say it was not fair, blah, blah. Well, again, that is not the question.

As it stands Schumacher was more successful, there is no arguing about it.

We need not to confuse success with quality.

aveli666:

fangio scored 5 championships in 8 years comared with schumachers 7 in 15 years.

Judging from my own perspective - I only got a buzz from watching Michael Schumacher - Fangio is just a name, and has no emotion attached to it, as I have never seen him race...

I cannot judge someone, who I have never witnessed, so to me Michael is still the most successful driver of the time I have witnessed on the track...

Hamilton is the current best, and that is all I know... the dodo is an utter fake and failure, that much is for sure too...

i would say shumacher,because he made way,way more money,now thats success

twinkle_toes22:

there where often as few as 10 races in a championship back in the 50s aswell. having said that they often drove on longer more dangerous circuits in far more dangerous cars and conditions and for longer peiods (3 hour races where common).

I think its impossible to make the comparison, I always just think that the best would always be the best no matter what era you put them in. Its about talent but also the ability to focus that talent in the right way and also to have enough about you to get good people and the best teams around you, its a combination of different things. It isnt enough to be a brilliant driver (Gilles Villeneuve or Ronnie Peterson for example) youve got to nurture that talent and be able to work very hard to constantly try to improve it and I guess to never really be satisfied with the level you're at. I think thats the common thread you will find between all the multiple champions - the work ethic behind the talent.

the question is not about which one would win if they raced against each other. the racing is over and now we are only looking at their results because f1 is all about results. is the most successful driver is the driver who scored the most wins per race and championships per season, then fangio wins hands down but if it is simply the driver who scored the most wins and most championships then schumacher wins hands down. so which is it?

JohnT:

aveli666:

fangio scored 5 championships in 8 years comared with schumachers 7 in 15 years.

 

Have to say Fangio

All his championships where won fairly and within the rules.

why fangio? did team orders not play a major role in his successes? 

franger:

aveli666:

fangio scored 5 championships in 8 years comared with schumachers 7 in 15 years.

Aveli, you really can't compare eras.  Fangio drove at a time when team orders were accepted as the right thing to do and if his own car broke down his team mate would be called in and had to give his car to Fangio in the middle of a race.  There were also many championship races that not all the drivers entered and the Indianapolis 500 counted for the championship in those days.  Very few F1 drivers ever entered it so in the history of the WDC you have drivers who only raced at Indy listed as GP winners. 

Michael was asked this very question many times in interviews and refused to compare his success with Fangio's and also stated he had huge respect for the drivers of that era.

Another thing Fangio was good at was moving to the team with the best car, unlike MS who moved to a Ferrari team that could not win and built a championship winning team.

If you are going to go down the percentage route anyway it would depend which statistic you chose.  You have chosen championship wins.  How about percentage race wins or podium places or fastest laps or pole positions.

championships are decided by the most number of points and the driver who wins the most normally end up with the most wins and podiums. we can look at other statistics like fastest laps and pole positions but they don't win championships.

I agree with Aname, you just cant compare them. At least 1 of Fangio's WDC's came after his car broke down and Moss was called into the pit and his car was given to Fangio.

Like it or not Schumacher holds more records than anyone else in the history of the sport and so is the most succesfull. Does that make him the best ever? Well thats down to opinion.

aveli666:

franger:

aveli666:

fangio scored 5 championships in 8 years comared with schumachers 7 in 15 years.

Aveli, you really can't compare eras.  Fangio drove at a time when team orders were accepted as the right thing to do and if his own car broke down his team mate would be called in and had to give his car to Fangio in the middle of a race.  There were also many championship races that not all the drivers entered and the Indianapolis 500 counted for the championship in those days.  Very few F1 drivers ever entered it so in the history of the WDC you have drivers who only raced at Indy listed as GP winners. 

Michael was asked this very question many times in interviews and refused to compare his success with Fangio's and also stated he had huge respect for the drivers of that era.

Another thing Fangio was good at was moving to the team with the best car, unlike MS who moved to a Ferrari team that could not win and built a championship winning team.

If you are going to go down the percentage route anyway it would depend which statistic you chose.  You have chosen championship wins.  How about percentage race wins or podium places or fastest laps or pole positions.

championships are decided by the most number of points and the driver who wins the most normally end up with the most wins and podiums. we can look at other statistics like fastest laps and pole positions but they don't win championships.

Keke Rosberg won the WDC and only won one race that year.  Many drivers have won the WDC by being consistant in a year when others have won more races.  The very opposite from what most Lewis fans seem to like about his racing.  He goes for wins!

jack 67:

I agree with Aname, you just cant compare them. At least 1 of Fangio's WDC's came after his car broke down and Moss was called into the pit and his car was given to Fangio.

Like it or not Schumacher holds more records than anyone else in the history of the sport and so is the most succesfull. Does that make him the best ever? Well thats down to opinion.

the question is not who is the best ever but who is the most successful?

i wonder who holds the record for wearing the most number of brown pants. 

aveli666:

jack 67:

I agree with Aname, you just cant compare them. At least 1 of Fangio's WDC's came after his car broke down and Moss was called into the pit and his car was given to Fangio.

Like it or not Schumacher holds more records than anyone else in the history of the sport and so is the most succesfull. Does that make him the best ever? Well thats down to opinion.

the question is not who is the best ever but who is the most successful?

i wonder who holds the record for wearing the most number of brown pants. 

To answer your first question.  To decide who is the most successful you first have to decide what criteria you are going to use.  Race wins or points?

With reference to my previous post and using 1954 as an example if you use points then fastest laps are important as you got a point for fastest lap.  If you use race wins then that is different again as in that year Fangio won six races but only got points for five as only the best five results from the nine championship races counted towards the championship.  Fangio clearly won that championship no matter what way you look at the race results.

But what about 1988?  Prost got 112 points and Senna got 102.  But because only the best 11 results were counted for the championship and Senna won 8 GPs to Prost's 7 Senna was champion under the rules at that point.

That is another reason why it is very hard to compare eras.  The rules and regulations and the points scoring systems were changed all the way through the history of the sport.  So if you compare 1988 to 2008 the driver crowned champion would have been different if you swapped the scoring systems.

Now I know that we have to accept that drivers race under the rules of the day but for arguments sake we could now say that Prost equaled Fangio's record of 5 WDCs and that Lewis has yet to win one!  I am not for one minute suggesting this should be the case, just using it as an example why you cannot compare different eras in F1.

As for your second question.  Was there really any need to lower what was quite an interesting thread by resorting to insults?

jack 67:

I agree with Aname, you just cant compare them. At least 1 of Fangio's WDC's came after his car broke down and Moss was called into the pit and his car was given to Fangio.

Like it or not Schumacher holds more records than anyone else in the history of the sport and so is the most succesfull. Does that make him the best ever? Well thats down to opinion.

I dont see how anyone can argue with any of that. When it comes to who's the best ever, I think 90% of posters would have the same top 5 or 6 it's just a matter of opinion in what order to put them.

aveli666:

jack 67:

I agree with Aname, you just cant compare them. At least 1 of Fangio's WDC's came after his car broke down and Moss was called into the pit and his car was given to Fangio.

Like it or not Schumacher holds more records than anyone else in the history of the sport and so is the most succesfull. Does that make him the best ever? Well thats down to opinion.

the question is not who is the best ever but who is the most successful?

Read the post again, if you read carefully you will see I have answered the question of who is the most succesful. You really do need to learn to read posts before you answer them.

 

i wonder who holds the record for wearing the most number of brown pants. 

Childish silly comment. As with all your posts based on nothing. Shame on you!

aveli666:

JohnT:

aveli666:

fangio scored 5 championships in 8 years comared with schumachers 7 in 15 years.

 

Have to say Fangio

All his championships where won fairly and within the rules.

why fangio? did team orders not play a major role in his successes? 

I said

within the rules

team order where part of F1 in those far off days.  (pre MS)

JohnT:

aveli666:

JohnT:

aveli666:

fangio scored 5 championships in 8 years comared with schumachers 7 in 15 years.

 

Have to say Fangio

All his championships where won fairly and within the rules.

why fangio? did team orders not play a major role in his successes? 

I said

within the rules

team order where part of F1 in those far off days.  (pre MS)

Team orders were also within the rules when MS was racing in F1.  The rules were changed during his time after the furore following the change of leader at the Austrian GP.

We saw McLaren do it at the Australian GP as well when DC was asked to let Mika through.  No action was taken because it was within the rules at that point.  There is a short article about this by DC in this month's F1 Racing.

franger:

JohnT:

aveli666:

JohnT:

aveli666:

fangio scored 5 championships in 8 years comared with schumachers 7 in 15 years.

 

Have to say Fangio

All his championships where won fairly and within the rules.

why fangio? did team orders not play a major role in his successes? 

I said

within the rules

team order where part of F1 in those far off days.  (pre MS)

Team orders were also within the rules when MS was racing in F1.  The rules were changed during his time after the furore following the change of leader at the Austrian GP.

We saw McLaren do it at the Australian GP as well when DC was asked to let Mika through.  No action was taken because it was within the rules at that point.  There is a short article about this by DC in this month's F1 Racing.

I think Fangio. I also think a piece of string is 43cm.