this is what has reduced alonso to such a low.

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5671078,00.html

for years he sold the myth that he was a great developer of cars, not knowing they were fluke moments he enjoyed. now that we know the truth he is all sorry for himself. 

aveli666:

justrace:

I agree. And Alonso did not refer to champions, he said GP2 winners. Looks like some people only argue for the arguments sake, without comprehending much.

let's be honest justrace, olympic winners are described as olympic champions, premiership winners are also described af premiership champions, f1 winner is f1 champion so why is gp2 winner not a gp2 champion?

first people claimed alonso referred to gp2 and gp2 asia series and when i asked for the other winners, you came up with this idea of race winners. race winners are not champions and renault got rid of both those drivers alonso claim to be gp2 winners and very good oposition to him over the two years. renault got rid of them because they are not good enough. this alone shows that alonso is in an emotional state because he has lost confidence in himself and says things to try to cheer himself up. i suspect piquet was sacked for political reasons and grosjean sacked because he was worse than piquet. i hope piquet finds a seat in f1 though.

why do you refuse to accept the truth? 

I have no problem with honesty, however, this seems to be another concept you fail to understand.

F1 winner is F1 champion? Surely not. This season alone we had 6 different winners, but still only one champion.

I did not come up with this idea of race winners. It is what Alonso said. Here is the quote from the article you gave as reference in the OP:

F1 is always different and I have been beating them for two years guys who are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories.

He clearly says guys who are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories. He did not say guys who are GP2 champions. You made it all up, yet again. And then you tell me to be honest.

So, you better start being honest before you get carried away.

And as this shows, it is not me who is refusing to accept the truth. You have made everything up yet again, and still claim the truth. Well, maybe you should learn to accept reality first.

aveli666:

this is what has reduced alonso to such a low.

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5671078,00.html

for years he sold the myth that he was a great developer of cars, not knowing they were fluke moments he enjoyed. now that we know the truth he is all sorry for himself. 

On top of what JR said, you have provided no link between what you now present as evidence. It is merely some fluff piece about Hamilton and Mclaren and how well they have improved througout the year. How either article tells you how Alonso is feeling right now is beyond me.

Guys!

Trying to make the OP see sense is -

Well let me explain it with the aid of a metaphorical illustration!

That's a horse by the way!

Aveli, don't even think about arguing the point that it might be a donkey! That would offer a completely different allegorical scenario!

psoames:

Guys!

Trying to make the OP see sense is -

Well let me explain it with the aid of a metaphorical illustration!

 

 

That's a horse by the way!

Aveli, don't even think about arguing the point that it might be a donkey! That would offer a completely different allegorical scenario!

and you knew something about this? 

justrace:

aveli666:

justrace:

I agree. And Alonso did not refer to champions, he said GP2 winners. Looks like some people only argue for the arguments sake, without comprehending much.

let's be honest justrace, olympic winners are described as olympic champions, premiership winners are also described af premiership champions, f1 winner is f1 champion so why is gp2 winner not a gp2 champion?

first people claimed alonso referred to gp2 and gp2 asia series and when i asked for the other winners, you came up with this idea of race winners. race winners are not champions and renault got rid of both those drivers alonso claim to be gp2 winners and very good oposition to him over the two years. renault got rid of them because they are not good enough. this alone shows that alonso is in an emotional state because he has lost confidence in himself and says things to try to cheer himself up. i suspect piquet was sacked for political reasons and grosjean sacked because he was worse than piquet. i hope piquet finds a seat in f1 though.

why do you refuse to accept the truth? 

I have no problem with honesty, however, this seems to be another concept you fail to understand.

F1 winner is F1 champion? Surely not. This season alone we had 6 different winners, but still only one champion.

I did not come up with this idea of race winners. It is what Alonso said. Here is the quote from the article you gave as reference in the OP:

F1 is always different and I have been beating them for two years guyswho are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories.

He clearly says guys who are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories. He did not say guys who are GP2 champions. You made it all up, yet again. And then you tell me to be honest.

So, you better start being honest before you get carried away.

And as this shows, it is not me who is refusing to accept the truth. You have made everything up yet again, and still claim the truth. Well, maybe you should learn to accept reality first.

i am not sure gp2 race winners are ever described as gp2 winners. this links tells us all what that means.

http://www.f1wolf.com/2007/12/f2-f3000-and-gp2-winners-in-formula-1.html 

aveli666:

justrace:

aveli666:

justrace:

I agree. And Alonso did not refer to champions, he said GP2 winners. Looks like some people only argue for the arguments sake, without comprehending much.

let's be honest justrace, olympic winners are described as olympic champions, premiership winners are also described af premiership champions, f1 winner is f1 champion so why is gp2 winner not a gp2 champion?

first people claimed alonso referred to gp2 and gp2 asia series and when i asked for the other winners, you came up with this idea of race winners. race winners are not champions and renault got rid of both those drivers alonso claim to be gp2 winners and very good oposition to him over the two years. renault got rid of them because they are not good enough. this alone shows that alonso is in an emotional state because he has lost confidence in himself and says things to try to cheer himself up. i suspect piquet was sacked for political reasons and grosjean sacked because he was worse than piquet. i hope piquet finds a seat in f1 though.

why do you refuse to accept the truth? 

I have no problem with honesty, however, this seems to be another concept you fail to understand.

F1 winner is F1 champion? Surely not. This season alone we had 6 different winners, but still only one champion.

I did not come up with this idea of race winners. It is what Alonso said. Here is the quote from the article you gave as reference in the OP:

F1 is always different and I have been beating them for two years guyswho are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories.

He clearly says guys who are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories. He did not say guys who are GP2 champions. You made it all up, yet again. And then you tell me to be honest.

So, you better start being honest before you get carried away.

And as this shows, it is not me who is refusing to accept the truth. You have made everything up yet again, and still claim the truth. Well, maybe you should learn to accept reality first.

i am not sure gp2 race winners are ever described as gp2 winners. this links tells us all what that means.

http://www.f1wolf.com/2007/12/f2-f3000-and-gp2-winners-in-formula-1.html 

The use of winner in that document was only used to not repeat the word champion. The word 'winner' could be used because the word 'champion' was used before it putting the more general term (winner) in context. It tells us nothing about what Alonso meant when he said 'GP2 winner' then separately referred to champions of other series after. Note the order, that order emphasises the much greater likelyhood of Alonso defining two separate concepts in his mind with the first one not being champions.

None of your 'evidence' sheds any light on his state of mind. The various articles are merely more irrelevant links to try to back your opinion as the truth. I have said everything I need to say in answer to your posts.

Unless you can actually put together a logical and relevant argument my job is done. I agree with the earlier post, I am now flogging a dead horse.

Have fun.

f.eric:

aveli666:

justrace:

aveli666:

justrace:

I agree. And Alonso did not refer to champions, he said GP2 winners. Looks like some people only argue for the arguments sake, without comprehending much.

let's be honest justrace, olympic winners are described as olympic champions, premiership winners are also described af premiership champions, f1 winner is f1 champion so why is gp2 winner not a gp2 champion?

first people claimed alonso referred to gp2 and gp2 asia series and when i asked for the other winners, you came up with this idea of race winners. race winners are not champions and renault got rid of both those drivers alonso claim to be gp2 winners and very good oposition to him over the two years. renault got rid of them because they are not good enough. this alone shows that alonso is in an emotional state because he has lost confidence in himself and says things to try to cheer himself up. i suspect piquet was sacked for political reasons and grosjean sacked because he was worse than piquet. i hope piquet finds a seat in f1 though.

why do you refuse to accept the truth? 

I have no problem with honesty, however, this seems to be another concept you fail to understand.

F1 winner is F1 champion? Surely not. This season alone we had 6 different winners, but still only one champion.

I did not come up with this idea of race winners. It is what Alonso said. Here is the quote from the article you gave as reference in the OP:

F1 is always different and I have been beating them for two years guyswho are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories.

He clearly says guys who are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories. He did not say guys who are GP2 champions. You made it all up, yet again. And then you tell me to be honest.

So, you better start being honest before you get carried away.

And as this shows, it is not me who is refusing to accept the truth. You have made everything up yet again, and still claim the truth. Well, maybe you should learn to accept reality first.

i am not sure gp2 race winners are ever described as gp2 winners. this links tells us all what that means.

http://www.f1wolf.com/2007/12/f2-f3000-and-gp2-winners-in-formula-1.html 

The use of winner in that document was only used to not repeat the word champion. The word 'winner' could be used because the word 'champion' was used before it putting the more general term (winner) in context. It tells us nothing about what Alonso meant when he said 'GP2 winner' then separately referred to champions of other series after. Note the order, that order emphasises the much greater likelyhood of Alonso defining two separate concepts in his mind with the first one not being champions.

None of your 'evidence' sheds any light on his state of mind. The various articles are merely more irrelevant links to try to back your opinion as the truth. I have said everything I need to say in answer to your posts.

Unless you can actually put together a logical and relevant argument my job is done. I agree with the earlier post, I am now flogging a dead horse.

Have fun.

A correction: The use of winner in the new article as a noun was quantified by the word 'title'. To be clear, 'GP2 title winner' clearly defines a champion but the use of 'GP2 winner' in the original article does not involve a championship winners in particular as Alonso uses the word 'champion' later on to refer to 'other series'. the use of the word winner, there or in this new article, is not able to back your assumption of what Alonso meant clearly or definitively.

I normally charge for my English classes, have fun.

justrace:

aveli666:

justrace:

I agree. And Alonso did not refer to champions, he said GP2 winners. Looks like some people only argue for the arguments sake, without comprehending much.

let's be honest justrace, olympic winners are described as olympic champions, premiership winners are also described af premiership champions, f1 winner is f1 champion so why is gp2 winner not a gp2 champion?

first people claimed alonso referred to gp2 and gp2 asia series and when i asked for the other winners, you came up with this idea of race winners. race winners are not champions and renault got rid of both those drivers alonso claim to be gp2 winners and very good oposition to him over the two years. renault got rid of them because they are not good enough. this alone shows that alonso is in an emotional state because he has lost confidence in himself and says things to try to cheer himself up. i suspect piquet was sacked for political reasons and grosjean sacked because he was worse than piquet. i hope piquet finds a seat in f1 though.

why do you refuse to accept the truth? 

I have no problem with honesty, however, this seems to be another concept you fail to understand.

F1 winner is F1 champion? Surely not. This season alone we had 6 different winners, but still only one champion.

I did not come up with this idea of race winners. It is what Alonso said. Here is the quote from the article you gave as reference in the OP:

F1 is always different and I have been beating them for two years guyswho are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories.

He clearly says guys who are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories. He did not say guys who are GP2 champions. You made it all up, yet again. And then you tell me to be honest.

So, you better start being honest before you get carried away.

And as this shows, it is not me who is refusing to accept the truth. You have made everything up yet again, and still claim the truth. Well, maybe you should learn to accept reality first.

http://www.f1wolf.com/2007/12/f2-f3000-and-gp2-winners-in-formula-1.html

i hope you thought long and hard about what you wanted to post before posting it.

this link about refers to gp2 winners and i do not see the names piquet or grosjean on it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/racing/stats-facts/F1-Past-winners/articleshow/2876959.cms

this is also a list of f1 winners and they don't include mark webber david coulthard or sebastien vettel. race winners and grand prix winners are not f1 winners. who is making things up now and refusing to see the truth? what a shame. 

aveli666:

justrace:

aveli666:

justrace:

I agree. And Alonso did not refer to champions, he said GP2 winners. Looks like some people only argue for the arguments sake, without comprehending much.

let's be honest justrace, olympic winners are described as olympic champions, premiership winners are also described af premiership champions, f1 winner is f1 champion so why is gp2 winner not a gp2 champion?

first people claimed alonso referred to gp2 and gp2 asia series and when i asked for the other winners, you came up with this idea of race winners. race winners are not champions and renault got rid of both those drivers alonso claim to be gp2 winners and very good oposition to him over the two years. renault got rid of them because they are not good enough. this alone shows that alonso is in an emotional state because he has lost confidence in himself and says things to try to cheer himself up. i suspect piquet was sacked for political reasons and grosjean sacked because he was worse than piquet. i hope piquet finds a seat in f1 though.

why do you refuse to accept the truth? 

I have no problem with honesty, however, this seems to be another concept you fail to understand.

F1 winner is F1 champion? Surely not. This season alone we had 6 different winners, but still only one champion.

I did not come up with this idea of race winners. It is what Alonso said. Here is the quote from the article you gave as reference in the OP:

F1 is always different and I have been beating them for two years guyswho are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories.

He clearly says guys who are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories. He did not say guys who are GP2 champions. You made it all up, yet again. And then you tell me to be honest.

So, you better start being honest before you get carried away.

And as this shows, it is not me who is refusing to accept the truth. You have made everything up yet again, and still claim the truth. Well, maybe you should learn to accept reality first.

http://www.f1wolf.com/2007/12/f2-f3000-and-gp2-winners-in-formula-1.html

i hope you thought long and hard about what you wanted to post before posting it.

this link about refers to gp2 winners and i do not see the names piquet or grosjean on it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/racing/stats-facts/F1-Past-winners/articleshow/2876959.cms

this is also a list of f1 winners and they don't include mark webber david coulthard or sebastien vettel. race winners and grand prix winners are not f1 winners. who is making things up now and refusing to see the truth? what a shame. 

The only one who is need of thinking is you. I am so sorry that your command of the english language is so poor. You have referred to an article where Alonso referred to his team mates as "winning in GP2". He did not say "won GP2".

Alonso is spanish but seems to understand english much better than you do. What a shame.

justrace:

aveli666:

justrace:

aveli666:

justrace:

I agree. And Alonso did not refer to champions, he said GP2 winners. Looks like some people only argue for the arguments sake, without comprehending much.

let's be honest justrace, olympic winners are described as olympic champions, premiership winners are also described af premiership champions, f1 winner is f1 champion so why is gp2 winner not a gp2 champion?

first people claimed alonso referred to gp2 and gp2 asia series and when i asked for the other winners, you came up with this idea of race winners. race winners are not champions and renault got rid of both those drivers alonso claim to be gp2 winners and very good oposition to him over the two years. renault got rid of them because they are not good enough. this alone shows that alonso is in an emotional state because he has lost confidence in himself and says things to try to cheer himself up. i suspect piquet was sacked for political reasons and grosjean sacked because he was worse than piquet. i hope piquet finds a seat in f1 though.

why do you refuse to accept the truth? 

I have no problem with honesty, however, this seems to be another concept you fail to understand.

F1 winner is F1 champion? Surely not. This season alone we had 6 different winners, but still only one champion.

I did not come up with this idea of race winners. It is what Alonso said. Here is the quote from the article you gave as reference in the OP:

F1 is always different and I have been beating them for two years guyswho are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories.

He clearly says guys who are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories. He did not say guys who are GP2 champions. You made it all up, yet again. And then you tell me to be honest.

So, you better start being honest before you get carried away.

And as this shows, it is not me who is refusing to accept the truth. You have made everything up yet again, and still claim the truth. Well, maybe you should learn to accept reality first.

http://www.f1wolf.com/2007/12/f2-f3000-and-gp2-winners-in-formula-1.html

i hope you thought long and hard about what you wanted to post before posting it.

this link about refers to gp2 winners and i do not see the names piquet or grosjean on it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/racing/stats-facts/F1-Past-winners/articleshow/2876959.cms

this is also a list of f1 winners and they don't include mark webber david coulthard or sebastien vettel. race winners and grand prix winners are not f1 winners. who is making things up now and refusing to see the truth? what a shame. 

The only one who is need of thinking is you. I am so sorry that your command of the english language is so poor. You have referred to an article where Alonso referred to his team mates as "winning in GP2". He did not say "won GP2".

Alonso is spanish but seems to understand english much better than you do. What a shame.

Actually, you're right JR, I should have double checked the original article again. Alonso is definitely not refering to GP2 champions. I think I should try to get more sleep.

justrace:

aveli666:

justrace:

aveli666:

justrace:

I agree. And Alonso did not refer to champions, he said GP2 winners. Looks like some people only argue for the arguments sake, without comprehending much.

let's be honest justrace, olympic winners are described as olympic champions, premiership winners are also described af premiership champions, f1 winner is f1 champion so why is gp2 winner not a gp2 champion?

first people claimed alonso referred to gp2 and gp2 asia series and when i asked for the other winners, you came up with this idea of race winners. race winners are not champions and renault got rid of both those drivers alonso claim to be gp2 winners and very good oposition to him over the two years. renault got rid of them because they are not good enough. this alone shows that alonso is in an emotional state because he has lost confidence in himself and says things to try to cheer himself up. i suspect piquet was sacked for political reasons and grosjean sacked because he was worse than piquet. i hope piquet finds a seat in f1 though.

why do you refuse to accept the truth? 

I have no problem with honesty, however, this seems to be another concept you fail to understand.

F1 winner is F1 champion? Surely not. This season alone we had 6 different winners, but still only one champion.

I did not come up with this idea of race winners. It is what Alonso said. Here is the quote from the article you gave as reference in the OP:

F1 is always different and I have been beating them for two years guyswho are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories.

He clearly says guys who are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories. He did not say guys who are GP2 champions. You made it all up, yet again. And then you tell me to be honest.

So, you better start being honest before you get carried away.

And as this shows, it is not me who is refusing to accept the truth. You have made everything up yet again, and still claim the truth. Well, maybe you should learn to accept reality first.

http://www.f1wolf.com/2007/12/f2-f3000-and-gp2-winners-in-formula-1.html

i hope you thought long and hard about what you wanted to post before posting it.

this link about refers to gp2 winners and i do not see the names piquet or grosjean on it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/racing/stats-facts/F1-Past-winners/articleshow/2876959.cms

this is also a list of f1 winners and they don't include mark webber david coulthard or sebastien vettel. race winners and grand prix winners are not f1 winners. who is making things up now and refusing to see the truth? what a shame. 

The only one who is need of thinking is you. I am so sorry that your command of the english language is so poor. You have referred to an article where Alonso referred to his team mates as "winning in GP2". He did not say "won GP2".

Alonso is spanish but seems to understand english much better than you do. What a shame.

there you go again passing judgement about my command of english without knowing about my command of english. is there a word for passing judgement without looking at the evidence. what do you know about assessing the command of english? you will always show these charactristics. in that article alonso did not use the words race wins at all. he may have meant it but he did refer to race wins. the words are ''winning in gp2''. if he said winning races in gp2 then it would've been clear but he didn't.

at the start of this thread several people claimed that alonso meant gp2 and gp2 asia series, passing judgment without the evidence until i asked for the other gp2 winner. did you tell them their command of english is poor? or are you bitter about other matters?

button won in f1 so he is the f1 champion, hulkenberg won in gp2 so he is the gp2 champion. other won races in both serieses but they are not winners of the serieses. it is understandable if alonso meant that his teammates won races in gp2 but as it stands, in standard english, what he said means they didn't only win races in the serieses but they won the serieses. 

i posted a couple of links which list winners in gp2 and f1 and non of the named are just race winners, they are all champions which shows that i am not alone in understanding what winning in gp2 and f1 mean. 

aveli666:

justrace:

aveli666:

justrace:

aveli666:

justrace:

I agree. And Alonso did not refer to champions, he said GP2 winners. Looks like some people only argue for the arguments sake, without comprehending much.

let's be honest justrace, olympic winners are described as olympic champions, premiership winners are also described af premiership champions, f1 winner is f1 champion so why is gp2 winner not a gp2 champion?

first people claimed alonso referred to gp2 and gp2 asia series and when i asked for the other winners, you came up with this idea of race winners. race winners are not champions and renault got rid of both those drivers alonso claim to be gp2 winners and very good oposition to him over the two years. renault got rid of them because they are not good enough. this alone shows that alonso is in an emotional state because he has lost confidence in himself and says things to try to cheer himself up. i suspect piquet was sacked for political reasons and grosjean sacked because he was worse than piquet. i hope piquet finds a seat in f1 though.

why do you refuse to accept the truth? 

I have no problem with honesty, however, this seems to be another concept you fail to understand.

F1 winner is F1 champion? Surely not. This season alone we had 6 different winners, but still only one champion.

I did not come up with this idea of race winners. It is what Alonso said. Here is the quote from the article you gave as reference in the OP:

F1 is always different and I have been beating them for two years guyswho are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories.

He clearly says guys who are winning in GP2 and are champions in different categories. He did not say guys who are GP2 champions. You made it all up, yet again. And then you tell me to be honest.

So, you better start being honest before you get carried away.

And as this shows, it is not me who is refusing to accept the truth. You have made everything up yet again, and still claim the truth. Well, maybe you should learn to accept reality first.

http://www.f1wolf.com/2007/12/f2-f3000-and-gp2-winners-in-formula-1.html

i hope you thought long and hard about what you wanted to post before posting it.

this link about refers to gp2 winners and i do not see the names piquet or grosjean on it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/racing/stats-facts/F1-Past-winners/articleshow/2876959.cms

this is also a list of f1 winners and they don't include mark webber david coulthard or sebastien vettel. race winners and grand prix winners are not f1 winners. who is making things up now and refusing to see the truth? what a shame. 

The only one who is need of thinking is you. I am so sorry that your command of the english language is so poor. You have referred to an article where Alonso referred to his team mates as "winning in GP2". He did not say "won GP2".

Alonso is spanish but seems to understand english much better than you do. What a shame.

there you go again passing judgement about my command of english without knowing about my command of english. is there a word for passing judgement without looking at the evidence. what do you know about assessing the command of english? you will always show these charactristics. in that article alonso did not use the words race wins at all. he may have meant it but he did refer to race wins. the words are ''winning in gp2''. if he said winning races in gp2 then it would've been clear but he didn't.

at the start of this thread several people claimed that alonso meant gp2 and gp2 asia series, passing judgment without the evidence until i asked for the other gp2 winner. did you tell them their command of english is poor? or are you bitter about other matters?

button won in f1 so he is the f1 champion, hulkenberg won in gp2 so he is the gp2 champion. other won races in both serieses but they are not winners of the serieses. it is understandable if alonso meant that his teammates won races in gp2 but as it stands, in standard english, what he said means they didn't only win races in the serieses but they won the serieses. 

i posted a couple of links which list winners in gp2 and f1 and non of the named are just race winners, they are all champions which shows that i am not alone in understanding what winning in gp2 and f1 mean. 

I am so sorry, aveli666, that not only your command of english is poor, but you also lack the fundamentals of logic. Just note that you have posted more than 2000 times, so there is enough evidence provided by yourself about your command of english.

I hope it is of some comfort that there are many people with similar problems. However, that you keep quoting and referring to them does not prove that you are right, it just enforces that you have a poor command of english.

There is not much else to say to somebody who does not understand that difference in meaning between "Driver X won in GP2" and "Driver X won GP2". If you don't get it, you may be better adviced to just leave instead of reenforcing that you have basic problems understanding english.

justrace:

I am so sorry, aveli666, that not only your command of english is poor, but you also lack the fundamentals of logic. Just note that you have posted more than 2000 times, so there is enough evidence provided by yourself about your command of english.

I hope it is of some comfort that there are many people with similar problems. However, that you keep quoting and referring to them does not prove that you are right, it just enforces that you have a poor command of english.

There is not much else to say to somebody who does not understand that difference in meaning between "Driver X won in GP2" and "Driver X won GP2". If you don't get it, you may be better adviced to just leave instead of reenforcing that you have basic problems understanding english.

this thread is about alonso claims that his teamates were winning in gp2 not about me and yet you continue to show your deep interest in me by counting how many post i have made and studying grammatical and semantic structure of my posts.

if you do not understand that jenson button won in f1 and sebastien vettel didn't win in f1 although he won 4 races this season then i cannot help you. you seem to want to remove a spec of dust from my eye and yet you have a log in your's.

for you to ask me to leave shows how desperate you have become. do you not realise that it's primitive of you to ask someone to leave? if you don't know then i shall point it out to you that i gave the moderators powers to remove inappropriate words from my post. appart from that, no one has the power to make choices for me.

hamilton is here to stay and so am i. we always like those who admire us but don't always like those whom we admire.