Wow...

Don't know if anyone here is interested, but in a similar-ish power struggle in the Indy Racing League, Tony George (owner of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and the same guy that fell out with Bernie a couple of years ago) has been forced off the board that presided over the racing series and the world famous racing circuit.

Many of the arguments are down to money with a reported $600m lost since the mid-90's.  Pressure has also been applied to other officials of series, following rule changes being forced through that have created embarrassing processions on a number of circuits (as much as I love Indy racing; even I was stunned by how bad last weekend's race was).

Amazing... 14 years after single-seater racing split (and since re-unified) in the US and they're still fighting over how its run and the money involved.

 

Sound familiar (ish)??

this is what happens when major racing series split! CART (formerly Indycar) was fantastic racing until the split in the mid/late 90s, after that neither series did that well and CART died a slow death despite being the better series.

I'm not sure if forcing George off the board is more to do with the way indy speedway is run than a move against the IRL series itself. Indiannapolis is BIG business in the states, like the Monaco GP but worth more $$$

Its a shame that open wheel racing has died a death in the US, even though the two series have sort of reunified, the problem is theyve lost their audience. Is there anyone on here from the states? what sort of coverage does it get on TV? (the IRL)

The IRL has always been pants, running the whole series on ovals was a big mistake when it started (alienate your international audience immediately) the cars look rubbish and handle like trucks on road circuits.

Well if ever there was a chance for F1 to get back into the USA its NOW! with the USF1 team we could see it getting back to how it used to be .. USA GP west and USGP east, with races in canada and mexico would be brilliant and i'm sure the open wheel audience in the states would love it.

twinkle_toes22:

this is what happens when major racing series split! CART (formerly Indycar) was fantastic racing until the split in the mid/late 90s, after that neither series did that well and CART died a slow death despite being the better series.

I'm not sure if forcing George off the board is more to do with the way indy speedway is run than a move against the IRL series itself. Indiannapolis is BIG business in the states, like the Monaco GP but worth more $$$

Its a shame that open wheel racing has died a death in the US, even though the two series have sort of reunified, the problem is theyve lost their audience. Is there anyone on here from the states? what sort of coverage does it get on TV? (the IRL)

The IRL has always been pants, running the whole series on ovals was a big mistake when it started (alienate your international audience immediately) the cars look rubbish and handle like trucks on road circuits.

Well if ever there was a chance for F1 to get back into the USA its NOW! with the USF1 team we could see it getting back to how it used to be .. USA GP west and USGP east, with races in canada and mexico would be brilliant and i'm sure the open wheel audience in the states would love it.

It's a great idea twinkle but I can't see it happening some how.  Now that FOTA are back in the clutches of Bernie the chances of any F1 races in north America in the foreseeable future look very doubtful.  Bernie doesn't like humble pie and his current game plan has no future for any of these american circuits.  It's a shame and a big mistake.

Who cares! As long as F1 doesn't return to that rubbish, mickey mouse Indianapolis circuit I don't mind either way!

bingolingo:

twinkle_toes22:

this is what happens when major racing series split! CART (formerly Indycar) was fantastic racing until the split in the mid/late 90s, after that neither series did that well and CART died a slow death despite being the better series.

I'm not sure if forcing George off the board is more to do with the way indy speedway is run than a move against the IRL series itself. Indiannapolis is BIG business in the states, like the Monaco GP but worth more $$$

Its a shame that open wheel racing has died a death in the US, even though the two series have sort of reunified, the problem is theyve lost their audience. Is there anyone on here from the states? what sort of coverage does it get on TV? (the IRL)

The IRL has always been pants, running the whole series on ovals was a big mistake when it started (alienate your international audience immediately) the cars look rubbish and handle like trucks on road circuits.

Well if ever there was a chance for F1 to get back into the USA its NOW! with the USF1 team we could see it getting back to how it used to be .. USA GP west and USGP east, with races in canada and mexico would be brilliant and i'm sure the open wheel audience in the states would love it.

It's a great idea twinkle but I can't see it happening some how.  Now that FOTA are back in the clutches of Bernie the chances of any F1 races in north America in the foreseeable future look very doubtful.  Bernie doesn't like humble pie and his current game plan has no future for any of these american circuits.  It's a shame and a big mistake.

 

a very big mistake, which i can't understand because there is so much money to be made in the states, what has bernie got against it .. i smell something fishy .. maybe the americans want a good, honest deal and that just isn't bernies way ..

twinkle_toes22:

bingolingo:

twinkle_toes22:

this is what happens when major racing series split! CART (formerly Indycar) was fantastic racing until the split in the mid/late 90s, after that neither series did that well and CART died a slow death despite being the better series.

I'm not sure if forcing George off the board is more to do with the way indy speedway is run than a move against the IRL series itself. Indiannapolis is BIG business in the states, like the Monaco GP but worth more $$$

Its a shame that open wheel racing has died a death in the US, even though the two series have sort of reunified, the problem is theyve lost their audience. Is there anyone on here from the states? what sort of coverage does it get on TV? (the IRL)

The IRL has always been pants, running the whole series on ovals was a big mistake when it started (alienate your international audience immediately) the cars look rubbish and handle like trucks on road circuits.

Well if ever there was a chance for F1 to get back into the USA its NOW! with the USF1 team we could see it getting back to how it used to be .. USA GP west and USGP east, with races in canada and mexico would be brilliant and i'm sure the open wheel audience in the states would love it.

It's a great idea twinkle but I can't see it happening some how.  Now that FOTA are back in the clutches of Bernie the chances of any F1 races in north America in the foreseeable future look very doubtful.  Bernie doesn't like humble pie and his current game plan has no future for any of these american circuits.  It's a shame and a big mistake.

 

a very big mistake, which i can't understand because there is so much money to be made in the states, what has bernie got against it .. i smell something fishy .. maybe the americans want a good, honest deal and that just isn't bernies way ..

Does anyone know how much CVC (and Bernie) charge for the right to stage a F1 race?  Maybe they're asking too much?

twinkle_toes22:

bingolingo:

twinkle_toes22:

this is what happens when major racing series split! CART (formerly Indycar) was fantastic racing until the split in the mid/late 90s, after that neither series did that well and CART died a slow death despite being the better series.

I'm not sure if forcing George off the board is more to do with the way indy speedway is run than a move against the IRL series itself. Indiannapolis is BIG business in the states, like the Monaco GP but worth more $$$

Its a shame that open wheel racing has died a death in the US, even though the two series have sort of reunified, the problem is theyve lost their audience. Is there anyone on here from the states? what sort of coverage does it get on TV? (the IRL)

The IRL has always been pants, running the whole series on ovals was a big mistake when it started (alienate your international audience immediately) the cars look rubbish and handle like trucks on road circuits.

Well if ever there was a chance for F1 to get back into the USA its NOW! with the USF1 team we could see it getting back to how it used to be .. USA GP west and USGP east, with races in canada and mexico would be brilliant and i'm sure the open wheel audience in the states would love it.

It's a great idea twinkle but I can't see it happening some how.  Now that FOTA are back in the clutches of Bernie the chances of any F1 races in north America in the foreseeable future look very doubtful.  Bernie doesn't like humble pie and his current game plan has no future for any of these american circuits.  It's a shame and a big mistake.

 

a very big mistake, which i can't understand because there is so much money to be made in the states, what has bernie got against it .. i smell something fishy .. maybe the americans want a good, honest deal and that just isn't bernies way ..

Does anyone know how much CVC (and Bernie) charge for the right to stage a F1 race?  Maybe they're asking too much?

twinkle_toes22:

bingolingo:

twinkle_toes22:

this is what happens when major racing series split! CART (formerly Indycar) was fantastic racing until the split in the mid/late 90s, after that neither series did that well and CART died a slow death despite being the better series.

I'm not sure if forcing George off the board is more to do with the way indy speedway is run than a move against the IRL series itself. Indiannapolis is BIG business in the states, like the Monaco GP but worth more $$$

Its a shame that open wheel racing has died a death in the US, even though the two series have sort of reunified, the problem is theyve lost their audience. Is there anyone on here from the states? what sort of coverage does it get on TV? (the IRL)

The IRL has always been pants, running the whole series on ovals was a big mistake when it started (alienate your international audience immediately) the cars look rubbish and handle like trucks on road circuits.

Well if ever there was a chance for F1 to get back into the USA its NOW! with the USF1 team we could see it getting back to how it used to be .. USA GP west and USGP east, with races in canada and mexico would be brilliant and i'm sure the open wheel audience in the states would love it.

It's a great idea twinkle but I can't see it happening some how.  Now that FOTA are back in the clutches of Bernie the chances of any F1 races in north America in the foreseeable future look very doubtful.  Bernie doesn't like humble pie and his current game plan has no future for any of these american circuits.  It's a shame and a big mistake.

 

a very big mistake, which i can't understand because there is so much money to be made in the states, what has bernie got against it .. i smell something fishy .. maybe the americans want a good, honest deal and that just isn't bernies way ..

 

 

...unless bernie is still eyeing up that new york city grand prix idea he was on about ages ago  - alternatively i'd love to see F1 at elkhart lake (one of the true rivals to spa in terms of driver challenge and fan worship in the US), but it will never happen (money, not safe enough, etc...).   Indianapolis would be the most certain bet, but i can guarentee the hulman sisters will not have it!!

 

@ twinkle_toes

To answer your earlier question, i care ...and many other fans of motor racing care.   it's ironic that something that considered so "american" actually has a rather strong-ish fanbase outside the US, while it continues to sink ever so slightly over the atlantic.

It is not a competitor to F1 and more importantly, it never wished to be.  It is unfortunate that a seies of factors and poor rule changes have to a downturn in good racing during the last two years; especially after the horror of F1's own rules at the start of this decade. 

At least they've announced new regs with regards to aerodynamics to be enforced from the start of August - they should help ovetaking to some degree.  In F1, it normally takes 2 years for them to decide what type of wheelnut should be used...

pedekay:

twinkle_toes22:

bingolingo:

twinkle_toes22:

this is what happens when major racing series split! CART (formerly Indycar) was fantastic racing until the split in the mid/late 90s, after that neither series did that well and CART died a slow death despite being the better series.

I'm not sure if forcing George off the board is more to do with the way indy speedway is run than a move against the IRL series itself. Indiannapolis is BIG business in the states, like the Monaco GP but worth more $$$

Its a shame that open wheel racing has died a death in the US, even though the two series have sort of reunified, the problem is theyve lost their audience. Is there anyone on here from the states? what sort of coverage does it get on TV? (the IRL)

The IRL has always been pants, running the whole series on ovals was a big mistake when it started (alienate your international audience immediately) the cars look rubbish and handle like trucks on road circuits.

Well if ever there was a chance for F1 to get back into the USA its NOW! with the USF1 team we could see it getting back to how it used to be .. USA GP west and USGP east, with races in canada and mexico would be brilliant and i'm sure the open wheel audience in the states would love it.

It's a great idea twinkle but I can't see it happening some how.  Now that FOTA are back in the clutches of Bernie the chances of any F1 races in north America in the foreseeable future look very doubtful.  Bernie doesn't like humble pie and his current game plan has no future for any of these american circuits.  It's a shame and a big mistake.

 

a very big mistake, which i can't understand because there is so much money to be made in the states, what has bernie got against it .. i smell something fishy .. maybe the americans want a good, honest deal and that just isn't bernies way ..

Does anyone know how much CVC (and Bernie) charge for the right to stage a F1 race?  Maybe they're asking too much?

I don't know what it is but it has been cited as the main cause of a number of circuits dropping off the calendar.  Bernie makes all sorts of claims about how a circuit is not up to standard, but that's just a smoke screen for 'they won't pay the asking price'.

I've always found this to be an unusual arrangement.  If you or I went to a venue and said 'I want to hold this event here' we'd be told to cough up a fee and a percentage of the takings.  Bernie has managed to turn this on its head and get the venues to pay for the privilege.  This is quite remarkable when you consider just how much money places like Turkey and China are losing on an annual basis.  Perhaps the circuit owners should form their own federation (like FOTA) and turn the tables on Bernie.  That way they can be guaranteed an income from the event and improve facilities for the fans, and the onus would be on Bernie to fill the seats and make it profitable.  Which is the way it should be.  We'd soon see the return of some of our favourite circuits and the end of some of these exotic ones then.

Oooh now that is a good idea, we could call it...erm....FOCA (Formula One Circuits Association) or something equally catchy but with historical significance, a bit like rebranding your billy no mates team Lotus!

it's the sanctioning fee that Bernie requires - nearly all racing series' have it, but none to F1' s costs

bingolingo:

pedekay:

twinkle_toes22:

bingolingo:

twinkle_toes22:

this is what happens when major racing series split! CART (formerly Indycar) was fantastic racing until the split in the mid/late 90s, after that neither series did that well and CART died a slow death despite being the better series.

I'm not sure if forcing George off the board is more to do with the way indy speedway is run than a move against the IRL series itself. Indiannapolis is BIG business in the states, like the Monaco GP but worth more $$$

Its a shame that open wheel racing has died a death in the US, even though the two series have sort of reunified, the problem is theyve lost their audience. Is there anyone on here from the states? what sort of coverage does it get on TV? (the IRL)

The IRL has always been pants, running the whole series on ovals was a big mistake when it started (alienate your international audience immediately) the cars look rubbish and handle like trucks on road circuits.

Well if ever there was a chance for F1 to get back into the USA its NOW! with the USF1 team we could see it getting back to how it used to be .. USA GP west and USGP east, with races in canada and mexico would be brilliant and i'm sure the open wheel audience in the states would love it.

It's a great idea twinkle but I can't see it happening some how.  Now that FOTA are back in the clutches of Bernie the chances of any F1 races in north America in the foreseeable future look very doubtful.  Bernie doesn't like humble pie and his current game plan has no future for any of these american circuits.  It's a shame and a big mistake.

 

a very big mistake, which i can't understand because there is so much money to be made in the states, what has bernie got against it .. i smell something fishy .. maybe the americans want a good, honest deal and that just isn't bernies way ..

Does anyone know how much CVC (and Bernie) charge for the right to stage a F1 race?  Maybe they're asking too much?

I don't know what it is but it has been cited as the main cause of a number of circuits dropping off the calendar.  Bernie makes all sorts of claims about how a circuit is not up to standard, but that's just a smoke screen for 'they won't pay the asking price'.

I've always found this to be an unusual arrangement.  If you or I went to a venue and said 'I want to hold this event here' we'd be told to cough up a fee and a percentage of the takings.  Bernie has managed to turn this on its head and get the venues to pay for the privilege.  This is quite remarkable when you consider just how much money places like Turkey and China are losing on an annual basis.  Perhaps the circuit owners should form their own federation (like FOTA) and turn the tables on Bernie.  That way they can be guaranteed an income from the event and improve facilities for the fans, and the onus would be on Bernie to fill the seats and make it profitable.  Which is the way it should be.  We'd soon see the return of some of our favourite circuits and the end of some of these exotic ones then.

You've got a good point there, binglingo, I hadn't thought of it that way.  Of course what you're saying makes sense.  How smart is Bernie !!!  How has he managed to do that, some clever talking ?

I wonder what it would take to get the circuit owners together as you suggest.  Now that would be a good move for the fans, the owners would have to charge realistic prices to get the fans in.  Some of the exotic ones would keep going, the ones where government money props them up.

pedekay:

twinkle_toes22:

bingolingo:

twinkle_toes22:

this is what happens when major racing series split! CART (formerly Indycar) was fantastic racing until the split in the mid/late 90s, after that neither series did that well and CART died a slow death despite being the better series.

I'm not sure if forcing George off the board is more to do with the way indy speedway is run than a move against the IRL series itself. Indiannapolis is BIG business in the states, like the Monaco GP but worth more $$$

Its a shame that open wheel racing has died a death in the US, even though the two series have sort of reunified, the problem is theyve lost their audience. Is there anyone on here from the states? what sort of coverage does it get on TV? (the IRL)

The IRL has always been pants, running the whole series on ovals was a big mistake when it started (alienate your international audience immediately) the cars look rubbish and handle like trucks on road circuits.

Well if ever there was a chance for F1 to get back into the USA its NOW! with the USF1 team we could see it getting back to how it used to be .. USA GP west and USGP east, with races in canada and mexico would be brilliant and i'm sure the open wheel audience in the states would love it.

It's a great idea twinkle but I can't see it happening some how.  Now that FOTA are back in the clutches of Bernie the chances of any F1 races in north America in the foreseeable future look very doubtful.  Bernie doesn't like humble pie and his current game plan has no future for any of these american circuits.  It's a shame and a big mistake.

 

a very big mistake, which i can't understand because there is so much money to be made in the states, what has bernie got against it .. i smell something fishy .. maybe the americans want a good, honest deal and that just isn't bernies way ..

Does anyone know how much CVC (and Bernie) charge for the right to stage a F1 race?  Maybe they're asking too much?

I seem to remember the sum of $22million dollars. most GPs lose money but are subsidised by governments and the new venues like to host GPs because of the knock on effect on the local economy via publicity .. in other words the race itself isnt important just the exposure it brings with it.

pedekay:

bingolingo:

pedekay:

twinkle_toes22:

bingolingo:

twinkle_toes22:

this is what happens when major racing series split! CART (formerly Indycar) was fantastic racing until the split in the mid/late 90s, after that neither series did that well and CART died a slow death despite being the better series.

I'm not sure if forcing George off the board is more to do with the way indy speedway is run than a move against the IRL series itself. Indiannapolis is BIG business in the states, like the Monaco GP but worth more $$$

Its a shame that open wheel racing has died a death in the US, even though the two series have sort of reunified, the problem is theyve lost their audience. Is there anyone on here from the states? what sort of coverage does it get on TV? (the IRL)

The IRL has always been pants, running the whole series on ovals was a big mistake when it started (alienate your international audience immediately) the cars look rubbish and handle like trucks on road circuits.

Well if ever there was a chance for F1 to get back into the USA its NOW! with the USF1 team we could see it getting back to how it used to be .. USA GP west and USGP east, with races in canada and mexico would be brilliant and i'm sure the open wheel audience in the states would love it.

It's a great idea twinkle but I can't see it happening some how.  Now that FOTA are back in the clutches of Bernie the chances of any F1 races in north America in the foreseeable future look very doubtful.  Bernie doesn't like humble pie and his current game plan has no future for any of these american circuits.  It's a shame and a big mistake.

 

a very big mistake, which i can't understand because there is so much money to be made in the states, what has bernie got against it .. i smell something fishy .. maybe the americans want a good, honest deal and that just isn't bernies way ..

Does anyone know how much CVC (and Bernie) charge for the right to stage a F1 race?  Maybe they're asking too much?

I don't know what it is but it has been cited as the main cause of a number of circuits dropping off the calendar.  Bernie makes all sorts of claims about how a circuit is not up to standard, but that's just a smoke screen for 'they won't pay the asking price'.

I've always found this to be an unusual arrangement.  If you or I went to a venue and said 'I want to hold this event here' we'd be told to cough up a fee and a percentage of the takings.  Bernie has managed to turn this on its head and get the venues to pay for the privilege.  This is quite remarkable when you consider just how much money places like Turkey and China are losing on an annual basis.  Perhaps the circuit owners should form their own federation (like FOTA) and turn the tables on Bernie.  That way they can be guaranteed an income from the event and improve facilities for the fans, and the onus would be on Bernie to fill the seats and make it profitable.  Which is the way it should be.  We'd soon see the return of some of our favourite circuits and the end of some of these exotic ones then.

You've got a good point there, binglingo, I hadn't thought of it that way.  Of course what you're saying makes sense.  How smart is Bernie !!!  How has he managed to do that, some clever talking ?

I wonder what it would take to get the circuit owners together as you suggest.  Now that would be a good move for the fans, the owners would have to charge realistic prices to get the fans in.  Some of the exotic ones would keep going, the ones where government money props them up.

If you take Silverstone as an example, it is estimated that the loss of the Grand Prix will cost the local Northamptonshire economy c£40 million just for the loss of that GP weekend, not to mention all the long term job losses predicted.  I think Bernie has successfully used this as a bargaining tool in the past.  By threatening to take a GP away from a circuit and ruin the local economy he can up the 'sanctioning fee' on a regular basis unchallenged.  When trying to entice new circuits he can quote figures from other circuits on what a GP brings to the local economy.  Let's face it, if you were offered an event that would bring in c£40 million to the local economy and the cost wasn't prohibitive, you'd take it wouldn't you?  It's only after a couple of years that circuits like China find they have been well and truly Ecclestoned.  Unfortunately for some circuits Bernie has either got too greedy or has significantly over estimated the return to the local economy.  Hence no Canadian GP.  The only way out of this is, is either for the circuit owners to get together en masse and stop the nonsense (a la FOTA), or for the game to be taken away from Bernie, which is what a breakaway series would have done.  I wonder what the chances of circuit owners getting together might be?  Pretty slim now I would have thought.  Too many good circuits and not enough GPs in a year.  Still, the way Max is carrying on, a breakaway is still on the cards.

Well it is because of the high fees that we lost the Montreal race. Rumours were Bernie was asking for something like $60 Million US.  That is why I was hoping for a FOTA breakaway series so we might get the race back.  No chance with Bernie and CVC.  The only other hope is FOTA demanding races in North America

As for Tony George I blame him for the decline of open wheel racing in North America (except F1).  The 2 series confused the fans and diluted the Indy 500 name.  Now to me that race no longer means anything.  What used to be an annual event is now just another day.  I don't even watch the series any more after CART folded.  CAR Thad the better product but TG had the Indy 500 in his back pocket.  All the other races could have no attendance and it wouldn't matter because it was the Indy 500 that brought in the money.  Sponsors were confused with CART because they assumed that these were the cars that raced at the Indy 500. No Indy 500, no sponsorship.