The present economic disaster has been building for years
Successive governments have done little to stop the gradual slow down.
We are now in dire staits
The whole situation is so complex that one needs the wisdom of Solomon to understand it
In laymans terms
Over time, since the the mid 50's Britains industrial base has been in decline
When I started work the were plenty of jobs in all sorts of industries
But now
Where have the main industries gone
We no longer any significant industrial basis
No Ship builders to speak of
No Steel indtustry
No Mining ..or very little
No Textiles
No Motor industry to speak of
Shipping seems to all under "foreign flag".
The list goes on ....very depressing
So where does this countries wealth come from
How do we pay for the NHS
How do we finance the the Social Services and Benefits
It cant all come from increases in fuel and food prices surely!!!!
It seems to me that that our MP's dont want face up to the fact
That the present trends cannot be allowed to continue
Another thing .....The Civil Service
I have always assumed the this august body are guiding looking after the best interests of the nation
But with all the "***-ups" ...lost data files ...top secret documents lying around
Departments being deemed as "not fit for purpose"
And nobody seems in control of the influx of people into the country!!!
Oh there are so many topics that I find very puzzling
And I know the situation is very complex
But surely some "bright spark" should be able to sort it???????
And then there the way we handle our debts ...credit ....!!!!
The list is endless!!!!!!!

And yet still we're harangued to keep pouring money into Africa and to buy "fair trade" and yet those who advocate fair trade couldn't give a stuff if people in this country aren't paid a fair wage - their mantra in such instances is "it's up to the individual to 'better themselves'" so why don't we just leave the scroungers from abroad to do likewise (particularly now that we're facing our own economic crisis).

EH??????

Scroungers from Africa is it? So starving babies and a barren landscape, war torn destruction and drought, this is scrounging?

Where does collective responsibility begin and end? Are you advocating the "i'm alright jack" attitude? charity begins at home, fair enough, but what about when it was the country of your birth that has caused economic misery abroad in the first place?

 

I think the government of this country, elected by people of this country should concentrate on helping the homeless, the unemployed, the pensioners, the less well off in this country.  Who died and made them the guardians of the entire world.  And just out of curiosity do you think any other country would be so eager to help us if/when we become a third world nation (as we will no doubt become judging by their current practice of consideration for every other nationality but British).  

Or maybe you just have to be on a damn good earner to give a toss about how badly off other people are.  Alright for the likes of Geldof and Bono to spout about how we should all be giving our money away given the position they're in.  They've got plenty.  If they care so much let them make themselves bankrupt in their sanctimonious cause - I've got bills to pay and food to buy.

 

Rosie, Charities appeal for your kindness, they don't force you to give money, there are plenty of UK charities you can give to. The people in Africa you rile about have not taken our manufacturing jobs, Fair trade is just  an effort  to  help  farmers in developing countries  get a  fair price for their  produce,  again  you  dont  have  to  perticipate.

I know we don't have to participate but I'm sick of people haranguing us on this issue.  Can't switch on the TV and/or radio or pick up a paper these days without hearing or seeing the words fair trade.  What about a fair price for our own (British) workers? 

btw how much is ploughing money into Africa really about helping Africans anyway?  Isn't it more a case of yet another place for businesses to ply their trade?

It is not about ploughing cash into these countries Rosie, it is about giving them a chance to re-build their country, infrastructure and helping to educate them about how to make the most of their land.

However poor you are you have the state to fall back on, because we live in a country that has a welfare system you will not starve. You will not have to walk for miles to get clean water, your crops are not going to be ravaged by pestilence or your home destroyed by war. Your children will not be forced to carry guns and you will not live in fear of being assaulted or killed.

finally - yes I sincerely beleive that if we wer in that position then other countries would help.

raging:

It is not about ploughing cash into these countries Rosie, it is about giving them a chance to re-build their country, infrastructure and helping to educate them about how to make the most of their land.

For who's benefit?  Theirs or the foreign (i.e. western) businesses that will prosper on that land, using that (cheaper) workforce, selling their luxury items to unsuspecting Africans who never knew they needed such crap?  You don't really think this is all being done out of 'goodwill' do you??  It's a business enterprise - nothing more nothing less - a chance to open up even more new markets.

However poor you are you have the state to fall back on, because we live in a country that has a welfare system you will not starve. You will not have to walk for miles to get clean water, your crops are not going to be ravaged by pestilence or your home destroyed by war. Your children will not be forced to carry guns and you will not live in fear of being assaulted or killed.

finally - yes I sincerely beleive that if we wer in that position then other countries would help.

I don't know whether you've noticed but an increasing number of kids in Britain are indeed arming themselves as they seem to be waging their own little wars.  And contrary to the myth that Britain is a bottomless pit of money it is not.  Your grandchildren or great grandchildren may well have to test your theory - that other (richer countries) would help us out if necessary - in years to come when the health service is no more and Britain has bankrupted itself bending over backwards to "help out" others.  This however is unlikely to happen.  What is more likely to happen is that Britain becomes more & more divided as the rich get rich and the poor get poorer.  We can see it happening already as the health service is being drained of it's resources, doctors are getting choosy as to who to treat and who not to treat and the only winners are those who can afford private treatment (oh and the Africans to whom the drugs are being shipped).  Heard the tale about the resistance to drugs?  Seems to be just a cost cutting exercise - a way of rationing drugs to British people who have paid all their lives into the health service.  So where are all those rationed drugs going I wonder?   

My first reply fell foul of the moderator. Not surprised really because i am angry.

rosie this argument you put forward incoherent and you are off on a tangent again.

Mr and Mrs average, who contribute to charities abroad, are not multi millionaires, they are not political animals, they are not asset stripping conglomerates. They contribute because they care and want to help make a difference.

I have no idea why you bring our gun and knife culture into this, it has nothing whatsoever to do with this debate. This is a gang culture phenomenon and needs specific tactics to deal with it.

The reason I brought gun & knife culture into this is because you said kids in Britain do not carry weapons (like they do in war-torn Africa).  My point was they do indeed carry weapons albeit for different reasons (but not entirely different in that they too seem to be waging their own little wars).

And if you think businesses have no interest in developing Africa then it is you who are blinkered and over-sentimentalising the whole issue.

 

Next you'll be suggesting the invasion of Iraq was based solely on the US and the UK's bid to spread "freedom" and was nowt to do with oil or getting a McDonald's installed on every street corner in Iraq.  Business rules the world not hearts & flowers and sentimentality.

I really cant be bothered with this anymore Rosie, you either are not reading the posts or you are just incapable of understanding a rational debate.

Well a "looks like we'll have to agree to disagree" woud have been nice but hey ho!