hahaha  Love the picture of Lew's next car, stiggy, well done rofl 

 

Brilliant picture, scarlet, really great lol.  Of course it had to be Heidi didn't it, can't see Louise in the picture anywhere. 

ps Is that the new car on the tray?  It doesn't look quite like stigga's picture, maybe it's the first version.

aveli666:

stigga:

aveli666:

let's be fair here, there is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that hamilton doesn't know how to develop a car

 

 

or is there any which suggest that other drivers are better than he is at developing a car. ther is enough evidence however which support the idea of hi being the best driver. 

"let's be fair here, there is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that hamilton doesn't know how to develop a car "

Nor is there any to suggest that he does.

 

"or is there any which suggest that other drivers are better than he is at developing a car."

Yes there is, I think more than one team principal/chief engineer has paid testament to Fernando Alono's skill in helping to develop a car.

 

 

"ther <sic> is enough evidence however which support the idea of hi being the best driver." 

No, there might be some evidence to suggest he is, but not enough evidence imo.

 

 

 

 

excellent pics stigga, very funny but to be honest, if you had any evidence, you would post them in the same way you posted those funny pics bur the truth is there is no evidence of hamilton not knowing how to develop a car.

martin whitmarsh said of hamilton that he was the best prepared driver for f1 there had ever been and went on to say that hamilton was the only driver who could quote ell sections of the 07 regulations. i don't beleive it is possible for hamilton to be so successful without excellent knowledge of car development. 

Wheres YOUR evidence aveil.

 Give me some, and ill give you some.

ptaylor747:

aveli666:

stigga:

aveli666:

let's be fair here, there is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that hamilton doesn't know how to develop a car

 

 

or is there any which suggest that other drivers are better than he is at developing a car. ther is enough evidence however which support the idea of hi being the best driver. 

"let's be fair here, there is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that hamilton doesn't know how to develop a car "

Nor is there any to suggest that he does.

 

"or is there any which suggest that other drivers are better than he is at developing a car."

Yes there is, I think more than one team principal/chief engineer has paid testament to Fernando Alono's skill in helping to develop a car.

 

 

"ther <sic> is enough evidence however which support the idea of hi being the best driver." 

No, there might be some evidence to suggest he is, but not enough evidence imo.

 

 

 

 

excellent pics stigga, very funny but to be honest, if you had any evidence, you would post them in the same way you posted those funny pics bur the truth is there is no evidence of hamilton not knowing how to develop a car.

martin whitmarsh said of hamilton that he was the best prepared driver for f1 there had ever been and went on to say that hamilton was the only driver who could quote ell sections of the 07 regulations. i don't beleive it is possible for hamilton to be so successful without excellent knowledge of car development. 

If he's so good then how come this years car is such a dog?  It started off that way and is still an absolute dog halfway through the season.  Surely his expert input would have improved it somehow?

it takes about a thousand people to design, build, develop and prepare the car for racing and you you think it is hamilton's fault that the care is not good? because the car is not as competitive as he would like, he has decided to put in more of an effort in the design side because he knows better what it is like to drive the car.

aveli666:

ptaylor747:

aveli666:

stigga:

aveli666:

let's be fair here, there is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that hamilton doesn't know how to develop a car

 

 

or is there any which suggest that other drivers are better than he is at developing a car. ther is enough evidence however which support the idea of hi being the best driver. 

"let's be fair here, there is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that hamilton doesn't know how to develop a car "

Nor is there any to suggest that he does.

 

"or is there any which suggest that other drivers are better than he is at developing a car."

Yes there is, I think more than one team principal/chief engineer has paid testament to Fernando Alono's skill in helping to develop a car.

 

 

"ther <sic> is enough evidence however which support the idea of hi being the best driver." 

No, there might be some evidence to suggest he is, but not enough evidence imo.

 

 

 

 

excellent pics stigga, very funny but to be honest, if you had any evidence, you would post them in the same way you posted those funny pics bur the truth is there is no evidence of hamilton not knowing how to develop a car.

martin whitmarsh said of hamilton that he was the best prepared driver for f1 there had ever been and went on to say that hamilton was the only driver who could quote ell sections of the 07 regulations. i don't beleive it is possible for hamilton to be so successful without excellent knowledge of car development. 

If he's so good then how come this years car is such a dog?  It started off that way and is still an absolute dog halfway through the season.  Surely his expert input would have improved it somehow?

it takes about a thousand people to design, build, develop and prepare the car for racing and you you think it is hamilton's fault that the care is not good? because the car is not as competitive as he would like, he has decided to put in more of an effort in the design side because he knows better what it is like to drive the car.

You originally quoted:

' the success of this project will confirm hamilton's understanding of technical matter'

So how will the input of 1 person in a team of over 1,000 confirm his technical ability?

If his technical ability is so outstanding as to significantly enhance the end product of about 1,000 people then surely there's still time to get involved and improve this year's car? We've seen enhancements and various add-ons to this years car yet it hasn't improved significantly, so why not bring in this technical genius sooner?

ptaylor747:

aveli666:

stigga:

aveli666:

let's be fair here, there is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that hamilton doesn't know how to develop a car

 

 

or is there any which suggest that other drivers are better than he is at developing a car. ther is enough evidence however which support the idea of hi being the best driver. 

"let's be fair here, there is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that hamilton doesn't know how to develop a car "

Nor is there any to suggest that he does.

 

"or is there any which suggest that other drivers are better than he is at developing a car."

Yes there is, I think more than one team principal/chief engineer has paid testament to Fernando Alono's skill in helping to develop a car.

 

 

"ther <sic> is enough evidence however which support the idea of hi being the best driver." 

No, there might be some evidence to suggest he is, but not enough evidence imo.

 

 

 

 

excellent pics stigga, very funny but to be honest, if you had any evidence, you would post them in the same way you posted those funny pics bur the truth is there is no evidence of hamilton not knowing how to develop a car.

martin whitmarsh said of hamilton that he was the best prepared driver for f1 there had ever been and went on to say that hamilton was the only driver who could quote ell sections of the 07 regulations. i don't beleive it is possible for hamilton to be so successful without excellent knowledge of car development. 

If he's so good then how come this years car is such a dog?  It started off that way and is still an absolute dog halfway through the season.  Surely his expert input would have improved it somehow?

but he was never involved in the design stages of mp4-24. now he is involved intimately with the initial stages of the designs and will be closely involved in all of the latter stages to ensure he is in a better position to compete. you will see the results in 2010 am sure. then you will be saying it is only the speed of car which is making him win not his driving skills. 

aveli666:

ptaylor747:

aveli666:

stigga:

aveli666:

let's be fair here, there is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that hamilton doesn't know how to develop a car

 

 

or is there any which suggest that other drivers are better than he is at developing a car. ther is enough evidence however which support the idea of hi being the best driver. 

"let's be fair here, there is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that hamilton doesn't know how to develop a car "

Nor is there any to suggest that he does.

 

"or is there any which suggest that other drivers are better than he is at developing a car."

Yes there is, I think more than one team principal/chief engineer has paid testament to Fernando Alono's skill in helping to develop a car.

 

 

"ther <sic> is enough evidence however which support the idea of hi being the best driver." 

No, there might be some evidence to suggest he is, but not enough evidence imo.

 

 

 

 

excellent pics stigga, very funny but to be honest, if you had any evidence, you would post them in the same way you posted those funny pics bur the truth is there is no evidence of hamilton not knowing how to develop a car.

martin whitmarsh said of hamilton that he was the best prepared driver for f1 there had ever been and went on to say that hamilton was the only driver who could quote ell sections of the 07 regulations. i don't beleive it is possible for hamilton to be so successful without excellent knowledge of car development. 

If he's so good then how come this years car is such a dog?  It started off that way and is still an absolute dog halfway through the season.  Surely his expert input would have improved it somehow?

but he was never involved in the design stages of mp4-24. now he is involved intimately with the initial stages of the designs and will be closely involved in all of the latter stages to ensure he is in a better position to compete. you will see the results in 2010 am sure. then you will be saying it is only the speed of car which is making him win not his driving skills. 

Lewis has been an integral part of the Mclaren team for a couple of years now - if his design skills are so widely recognised, then why wasn't he involved in the design of the MP4-24? 

This season clearly demonstrates that without a good car you're not going to win.  Whether your name is Lewis, Fernando or Kimi - if the car is rubbish, then that will reflect in the drivers results.

If Lewis, Fernando or Kimi win races next year then it is because they have a car that is capable of doing so.

mikhailv:

anametoremember:

aveli666:

according to reports on the itv website, hamilton will play a more active role in the design of his next car. the success of this project will confirm hamilton's understanding of technical matter and will hopefully stop people from spreading lies about him with the intention of making look bad.

i haven't noticed as much bile being spread about any other driver. he surely must take control of emotions.

That is a bit unprecendented for a driver isnt it? Tis can only mean Whitmarsh is still at McLaren next season and he doesnt trust him at all, surely if Dennis was about he wouldnt need to make such a big move. Good to know Hamilton knows a lot more about F1 cars than what we give him credit for, but it is still a bit unnerving to Hamilton has to go to such extreme measures which has fundlementallly come about from poor leadership from Whitmarsh and there are no two ends about it. This is just not the McLaren I know and have loved for the last 12 years or more, it sounds like a soul-less splintered team to me.

Heres me thinking he helped develop this years car. look where its at ;)

Nah seriously, I think it would be a good learning curve for him. He has yet to actually fully develop a car. Your being to harsh on whitmarsh (wow, that rhymes!), its not his fault. If you remember, Ron dennis set the team on the 2009 car in september 08, so he has to take the blame.

But yeah, i would like to see lewis develop THIS years car first. He just wants them to make a new one, a better one to give him. But, i dont think they should. he should continually develop and update the car and give the teams asmuch info as possible.

This is why I feel mclarens driver pairing is a failure. Lewis is very good, but he just hasnt got a knack for developing a car, Heikki;s been a test driver but is poorly performing overall. McLaren is missing a Fernando, a Felipe or a Wurz. Lewis hasnt gained the ability yet that they have he still cant rally a team around him and push forward. He complains but doesnt appear to make a full effort to try and advance. I dont think he's technically advanced enough to pinpoint problems, tell the team what they are doing wrong, the specifics of a problem. He just hasnt got that. It may come in the future ofcourse!

Mclaren as a team are missing Alonso, or David Coulthard.

That's just a load of tosh Mclaren are missing in season testing . In the past they have spent their way out of trouble . A driver can only give the team limited information about the car i.e wether or not they have understeer ' lack of traction ect . The driver can't see the way the air is moving around the car 

It's like Hamilton said at the beginning of the season he pushes and it feel's to him that the car is performing well . it's only when  he see's the lap times that he realises the car just isn't that good 

aveli666:

but he was never involved in the design stages of mp4-24. now he is involved intimately with the initial stages of the designs and will be closely involved in all of the latter stages to ensure he is in a better position to compete. you will see the results in 2010 am sure. then you will be saying it is only the speed of car which is making him win not his driving skills. 

Er...well why wasn't he?, can you imagine Michael Schumacher not being intimately involved in the creation of his championship defending car? We are all used to hearing about the love between McLaren and Hamilton but surely this is an example of McLaren not having the trust in his technical abilities during the design of this years car.  Of course he isn't designing the car, he is just now more involved in the process which, one would have thought, he should have been part of anyway.

wallace i:

mikhailv:

anametoremember:

aveli666:

according to reports on the itv website, hamilton will play a more active role in the design of his next car. the success of this project will confirm hamilton's understanding of technical matter and will hopefully stop people from spreading lies about him with the intention of making look bad.

i haven't noticed as much bile being spread about any other driver. he surely must take control of emotions.

That is a bit unprecendented for a driver isnt it? Tis can only mean Whitmarsh is still at McLaren next season and he doesnt trust him at all, surely if Dennis was about he wouldnt need to make such a big move. Good to know Hamilton knows a lot more about F1 cars than what we give him credit for, but it is still a bit unnerving to Hamilton has to go to such extreme measures which has fundlementallly come about from poor leadership from Whitmarsh and there are no two ends about it. This is just not the McLaren I know and have loved for the last 12 years or more, it sounds like a soul-less splintered team to me.

Heres me thinking he helped develop this years car. look where its at ;)

Nah seriously, I think it would be a good learning curve for him. He has yet to actually fully develop a car. Your being to harsh on whitmarsh (wow, that rhymes!), its not his fault. If you remember, Ron dennis set the team on the 2009 car in september 08, so he has to take the blame.

But yeah, i would like to see lewis develop THIS years car first. He just wants them to make a new one, a better one to give him. But, i dont think they should. he should continually develop and update the car and give the teams asmuch info as possible.

This is why I feel mclarens driver pairing is a failure. Lewis is very good, but he just hasnt got a knack for developing a car, Heikki;s been a test driver but is poorly performing overall. McLaren is missing a Fernando, a Felipe or a Wurz. Lewis hasnt gained the ability yet that they have he still cant rally a team around him and push forward. He complains but doesnt appear to make a full effort to try and advance. I dont think he's technically advanced enough to pinpoint problems, tell the team what they are doing wrong, the specifics of a problem. He just hasnt got that. It may come in the future ofcourse!

Mclaren as a team are missing Alonso, or David Coulthard.

That's just a load of tosh Mclaren are missing in season testing . In the past they have spent their way out of trouble . A driver can only give the team limited information about the car i.e wether or not they have understeer ' lack of traction ect . The driver can't see the way the air is moving around the car 

It's like Hamilton said at the beginning of the season he pushes and it feel's to him that the car is performing well . it's only when  he see's the lap times that he realises the car just isn't that good 

Oh, oh a load of tosh is it!

 Ok explain this. How come, last year, renault (who are the 5th biggest budget team behind toyota/ferrari/mclaren/redbull which includes toro rosso) managed to get a car from over 1.3 seconds slower than the pace, to just .3 of a second in the season? NOT only that, but how come, Pat symonds has PUBLICLY expressed how useful it is, to have fernando/ a driver who is so technically adapt and understands a car, can pinpoint the specific areas which need improvement to get the car quicker and to progress it, and to also inform the team how the car reacts on track, and what would be better to make it drive better?

So pat symonds, one of the best tech heads and strategists in the field, knows nothing but you do.

A driver cant tell you how the air moves, but he can tell you everything else, where its efficiencies, defficiencies and so forth are, and what areas a car is lacking, and not just 'grip', but pinpoint locations and how it acts.

When a driver is testing a car, which all teams are doing friday, then they go out and try every damn thing possible, whether its a split tenths less/more braking or acceleration to test adhesion and grip.

And there isnt abudget cap, so like you said, gone are the days of shedding money at everything (unless your ferrari). I bet next week both renault and mcLaren will take huge steps forward because of their CFD's.

So you sir, are talking the tosh, because a driver doesnt just jump in the car and expect it to go quick unless theyve had the cuddling of a team who has done that to them all their life. Real drivers know how to persue and develop a car with the team.

clearly, lewis hasnt got that yet.

aveli666:

anametoremember:

aveli666:

according to reports on the itv website, hamilton will play a more active role in the design of his next car. the success of this project will confirm hamilton's understanding of technical matter and will hopefully stop people from spreading lies about him with the intention of making look bad.

i haven't noticed as much bile being spread about any other driver. he surely must take control of emotions.

That is a bit unprecendented for a driver isnt it? Tis can only mean Whitmarsh is still at McLaren next season and he doesnt trust him at all, surely if Dennis was about he wouldnt need to make such a big move. Good to know Hamilton knows a lot more about F1 cars than what we give him credit for, but it is still a bit unnerving to Hamilton has to go to such extreme measures which has fundlementallly come about from poor leadership from Whitmarsh and there are no two ends about it. This is just not the McLaren I know and have loved for the last 12 years or more, it sounds like a soul-less splintered team to me.

don't forget that the mp4-24 was designed and built under ron dennis' supervision.  

MP4 24 was certainly designed by Ron Dennis as well as many others, but we have to appreicate Ron followed what he thought was the letter of the F1 law, given the nature of the double the diffuser and its different manipulation by others who arent even being bogged down by the KERS system, if he (Dennis) knew prehand that MP4 24 would have come out different and further more if Ron was still incharge of the McLaren F1 team the car certainly would have progressed by now.

I read a post of given a person enough rope, and if this story is true I cant help but think Lewis is tripping himself up here and this is because Ron is gone. 

Let me also add, I fully know Lewis isnt in his bedroom designing the car by himself, I am quite sure his input would be very minimal.....however, under the circumstances of this season competition and the way Lewis did not have a chance to remotely defend his title and Whitmarsh's lack of competitive leadership I can very well see why Lewis feels FORCED to raise his game in other departments...which is pretty sad by the way! 

mikhailv:

wallace i:

mikhailv:

anametoremember:

aveli666:

according to reports on the itv website, hamilton will play a more active role in the design of his next car. the success of this project will confirm hamilton's understanding of technical matter and will hopefully stop people from spreading lies about him with the intention of making look bad.

i haven't noticed as much bile being spread about any other driver. he surely must take control of emotions.

That is a bit unprecendented for a driver isnt it? Tis can only mean Whitmarsh is still at McLaren next season and he doesnt trust him at all, surely if Dennis was about he wouldnt need to make such a big move. Good to know Hamilton knows a lot more about F1 cars than what we give him credit for, but it is still a bit unnerving to Hamilton has to go to such extreme measures which has fundlementallly come about from poor leadership from Whitmarsh and there are no two ends about it. This is just not the McLaren I know and have loved for the last 12 years or more, it sounds like a soul-less splintered team to me.

Heres me thinking he helped develop this years car. look where its at ;)

Nah seriously, I think it would be a good learning curve for him. He has yet to actually fully develop a car. Your being to harsh on whitmarsh (wow, that rhymes!), its not his fault. If you remember, Ron dennis set the team on the 2009 car in september 08, so he has to take the blame.

But yeah, i would like to see lewis develop THIS years car first. He just wants them to make a new one, a better one to give him. But, i dont think they should. he should continually develop and update the car and give the teams asmuch info as possible.

This is why I feel mclarens driver pairing is a failure. Lewis is very good, but he just hasnt got a knack for developing a car, Heikki;s been a test driver but is poorly performing overall. McLaren is missing a Fernando, a Felipe or a Wurz. Lewis hasnt gained the ability yet that they have he still cant rally a team around him and push forward. He complains but doesnt appear to make a full effort to try and advance. I dont think he's technically advanced enough to pinpoint problems, tell the team what they are doing wrong, the specifics of a problem. He just hasnt got that. It may come in the future ofcourse!

Mclaren as a team are missing Alonso, or David Coulthard.

That's just a load of tosh Mclaren are missing in season testing . In the past they have spent their way out of trouble . A driver can only give the team limited information about the car i.e wether or not they have understeer ' lack of traction ect . The driver can't see the way the air is moving around the car 

It's like Hamilton said at the beginning of the season he pushes and it feel's to him that the car is performing well . it's only when  he see's the lap times that he realises the car just isn't that good 

Oh, oh a load of tosh is it!

 Ok explain this. How come, last year, renault (who are the 5th biggest budget team behind toyota/ferrari/mclaren/redbull which includes toro rosso) managed to get a car from over 1.3 seconds slower than the pace, to just .3 of a second in the season? NOT only that, but how come, Pat symonds has PUBLICLY expressed how useful it is, to have fernando/ a driver who is so technically adapt and understands a car, can pinpoint the specific areas which need improvement to get the car quicker and to progress it, and to also inform the team how the car reacts on track, and what would be better to make it drive better?

So pat symonds, one of the best tech heads and strategists in the field, knows nothing but you do.

A driver cant tell you how the air moves, but he can tell you everything else, where its efficiencies, defficiencies and so forth are, and what areas a car is lacking, and not just 'grip', but pinpoint locations and how it acts.

When a driver is testing a car, which all teams are doing friday, then they go out and try every damn thing possible, whether its a split tenths less/more braking or acceleration to test adhesion and grip.

And there isnt abudget cap, so like you said, gone are the days of shedding money at everything (unless your ferrari). I bet next week both renault and mcLaren will take huge steps forward because of their CFD's.

So you sir, are talking the tosh, because a driver doesnt just jump in the car and expect it to go quick unless theyve had the cuddling of a team who has done that to them all their life. Real drivers know how to persue and develop a car with the team.

clearly, lewis hasnt got that yet.

Of course the drivers input is important in developing a car but in your original post you say that what mclaren are missing are an Alonso or a DC . I'm sure Hamilton does provide feedback to the team and i'm sure it's usefull . But it is no substitute for in season testing and this dog of a car they call the MP4-24 is a trolly 

It would make absolutely no difference who is driving it and providing feedback it would still be a dog . Mclaren aren't lacking a driver who can persue and develope a car they are lacking in season testing

Also by default you are saying Jenson and Ruebens don't know how to develop a car despite their vast experience .The Honda's are testament to that and they had the benefit of in season testing

A bad car is a bad car if it's fundamentaly flawed no amount of driver input will change that . So call it tosh if you wan't but I would say that a drivers input is limited it's the designers who make a car if it's a good car of course the drivers input will be usefull in making the car even better .

If it's a bad car then the driver can do little about it no matter how technicaly minded or experienced that driver is . 

wallace i:

mikhailv:

wallace i:

mikhailv:

anametoremember:

aveli666:

according to reports on the itv website, hamilton will play a more active role in the design of his next car. the success of this project will confirm hamilton's understanding of technical matter and will hopefully stop people from spreading lies about him with the intention of making look bad.

i haven't noticed as much bile being spread about any other driver. he surely must take control of emotions.

That is a bit unprecendented for a driver isnt it? Tis can only mean Whitmarsh is still at McLaren next season and he doesnt trust him at all, surely if Dennis was about he wouldnt need to make such a big move. Good to know Hamilton knows a lot more about F1 cars than what we give him credit for, but it is still a bit unnerving to Hamilton has to go to such extreme measures which has fundlementallly come about from poor leadership from Whitmarsh and there are no two ends about it. This is just not the McLaren I know and have loved for the last 12 years or more, it sounds like a soul-less splintered team to me.

Heres me thinking he helped develop this years car. look where its at ;)

Nah seriously, I think it would be a good learning curve for him. He has yet to actually fully develop a car. Your being to harsh on whitmarsh (wow, that rhymes!), its not his fault. If you remember, Ron dennis set the team on the 2009 car in september 08, so he has to take the blame.

But yeah, i would like to see lewis develop THIS years car first. He just wants them to make a new one, a better one to give him. But, i dont think they should. he should continually develop and update the car and give the teams asmuch info as possible.

This is why I feel mclarens driver pairing is a failure. Lewis is very good, but he just hasnt got a knack for developing a car, Heikki;s been a test driver but is poorly performing overall. McLaren is missing a Fernando, a Felipe or a Wurz. Lewis hasnt gained the ability yet that they have he still cant rally a team around him and push forward. He complains but doesnt appear to make a full effort to try and advance. I dont think he's technically advanced enough to pinpoint problems, tell the team what they are doing wrong, the specifics of a problem. He just hasnt got that. It may come in the future ofcourse!

Mclaren as a team are missing Alonso, or David Coulthard.

That's just a load of tosh Mclaren are missing in season testing . In the past they have spent their way out of trouble . A driver can only give the team limited information about the car i.e wether or not they have understeer ' lack of traction ect . The driver can't see the way the air is moving around the car 

It's like Hamilton said at the beginning of the season he pushes and it feel's to him that the car is performing well . it's only when  he see's the lap times that he realises the car just isn't that good 

Oh, oh a load of tosh is it!

 Ok explain this. How come, last year, renault (who are the 5th biggest budget team behind toyota/ferrari/mclaren/redbull which includes toro rosso) managed to get a car from over 1.3 seconds slower than the pace, to just .3 of a second in the season? NOT only that, but how come, Pat symonds has PUBLICLY expressed how useful it is, to have fernando/ a driver who is so technically adapt and understands a car, can pinpoint the specific areas which need improvement to get the car quicker and to progress it, and to also inform the team how the car reacts on track, and what would be better to make it drive better?

So pat symonds, one of the best tech heads and strategists in the field, knows nothing but you do.

A driver cant tell you how the air moves, but he can tell you everything else, where its efficiencies, defficiencies and so forth are, and what areas a car is lacking, and not just 'grip', but pinpoint locations and how it acts.

When a driver is testing a car, which all teams are doing friday, then they go out and try every damn thing possible, whether its a split tenths less/more braking or acceleration to test adhesion and grip.

And there isnt abudget cap, so like you said, gone are the days of shedding money at everything (unless your ferrari). I bet next week both renault and mcLaren will take huge steps forward because of their CFD's.

So you sir, are talking the tosh, because a driver doesnt just jump in the car and expect it to go quick unless theyve had the cuddling of a team who has done that to them all their life. Real drivers know how to persue and develop a car with the team.

clearly, lewis hasnt got that yet.

Of course the drivers input is important in developing a car but in your original post you say that what mclaren are missing are an Alonso or a DC . I'm sure Hamilton does provide feedback to the team and i'm sure it's usefull . But it is no substitute for in season testing and this dog of a car they call the MP4-24 is a trolly 

It would make absolutely no difference who is driving it and providing feedback it would still be a dog . Mclaren aren't lacking a driver who can persue and develope a car they are lacking in season testing

Also by default you are saying Jenson and Ruebens don't know how to develop a car despite their vast experience .The Honda's are testament to that and they had the benefit of in season testing

A bad car is a bad car if it's fundamentaly flawed no amount of driver input will change that . So call it tosh if you wan't but I would say that a drivers input is limited it's the designers who make a car if it's a good car of course the drivers input will be usefull in making the car even better .

If it's a bad car then the driver can do little about it no matter how technicaly minded or experienced that driver is . 

i second that wallace, and would like to add that if there was a driver out there who had so much more technocal knowledge than the rest and could develop a car so well, the best teams would want to sign him just for the services of developing the car into a competitive one. at the moment i cant see any teams fighting to sign any such driver. 

ptaylor747:

aveli666:

ptaylor747:

aveli666:

stigga:

aveli666:

let's be fair here, there is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that hamilton doesn't know how to develop a car

 

 

or is there any which suggest that other drivers are better than he is at developing a car. ther is enough evidence however which support the idea of hi being the best driver. 

"let's be fair here, there is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that hamilton doesn't know how to develop a car "

Nor is there any to suggest that he does.

 

"or is there any which suggest that other drivers are better than he is at developing a car."

Yes there is, I think more than one team principal/chief engineer has paid testament to Fernando Alono's skill in helping to develop a car.

 

 

"ther <sic> is enough evidence however which support the idea of hi being the best driver." 

No, there might be some evidence to suggest he is, but not enough evidence imo.

 

 

 

 

excellent pics stigga, very funny but to be honest, if you had any evidence, you would post them in the same way you posted those funny pics bur the truth is there is no evidence of hamilton not knowing how to develop a car.

martin whitmarsh said of hamilton that he was the best prepared driver for f1 there had ever been and went on to say that hamilton was the only driver who could quote ell sections of the 07 regulations. i don't beleive it is possible for hamilton to be so successful without excellent knowledge of car development. 

If he's so good then how come this years car is such a dog?  It started off that way and is still an absolute dog halfway through the season.  Surely his expert input would have improved it somehow?

it takes about a thousand people to design, build, develop and prepare the car for racing and you you think it is hamilton's fault that the care is not good? because the car is not as competitive as he would like, he has decided to put in more of an effort in the design side because he knows better what it is like to drive the car.

You originally quoted:

' the success of this project will confirm hamilton's understanding of technical matter'

So how will the input of 1 person in a team of over 1,000 confirm his technical ability?

If his technical ability is so outstanding as to significantly enhance the end product of about 1,000 people then surely there's still time to get involved and improve this year's car? We've seen enhancements and various add-ons to this years car yet it hasn't improved significantly, so why not bring in this technical genius sooner?

 

he will only direct the team correctly if he has the technical know how.  

asanator:

aveli666:

but he was never involved in the design stages of mp4-24. now he is involved intimately with the initial stages of the designs and will be closely involved in all of the latter stages to ensure he is in a better position to compete. you will see the results in 2010 am sure. then you will be saying it is only the speed of car which is making him win not his driving skills. 

Er...well why wasn't he?, can you imagine Michael Schumacher not being intimately involved in the creation of his championship defending car? We are all used to hearing about the love between McLaren and Hamilton but surely this is an example of McLaren not having the trust in his technical abilities during the design of this years car.  Of course he isn't designing the car, he is just now more involved in the process which, one would have thought, he should have been part of anyway.

show me an article which states that michael schumacher was involved in the design of any of his f1 cars.