F1

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

aveli666 — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:31:31 GMT

bob surunkle:
aveli666:

.......... to spreading lies about any f1 driver except you guys spreading lies about hamilton
That is so clearly a lie, you know it's the truth that Lewis lied and you even said it yourself.
Telling a lie in order to gain an extra point is cheating, period!
Lewis has gone down in history as having lied and he'll be forever remembered for attempting to cheat at a sporting event.
As we've said elsewhere, Lewis needs to improve the public's perception of himself and you are doing him no favours at all by constantly dredging up the whole sordid affair.
If you really love Hamilton, you should be the one to 'give it a break' and let the lad get on with his job and let the rest of us admire the good things he does, without constantly being reminded of the bad.

really?

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

KIMBO1 — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:18:16 GMT

aveli666:
KIMBO1:

So Hamilton only lied because he was told to by his team, if they had told him to jump off a cliff would he have done so? think not. He knew exactly what he was doing and went along with it, therefore he was guilty as charged there is no excuse for what he did..

hamilton will never be and was not asked to jump off a cliff unless they went hang gliding.

other drivers have done worst things to win championships so in my eyes hamilton is the fairest, he didn't lie, will not cheat and will not throw his car at other cars either.

Its a good job for him that they havent asked him to jump because evidently he would, trouble is someone else would lose their job I suppose.

As for not throwing his car at others, he had a very good stab at it in Montreal last year didnt he - Oh perhaps he was told to or that would be his excuse anyway.

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

bob surunkle — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:32:42 GMT

aveli666:

.......... to spreading lies about any f1 driver except you guys spreading lies about hamilton

That is so clearly a lie, you know it's the truth that Lewis lied and you even said it yourself.

Telling a lie in order to gain an extra point is cheating, period!

Lewis has gone down in history as having lied and he'll be forever remembered for attempting to cheat at a sporting event.

As we've said elsewhere, Lewis needs to improve the public's perception of himself and you are doing him no favours at all by constantly dredging up the whole sordid affair.

If you really love Hamilton, you should be the one to 'give it a break' and let the lad get on with his job and let the rest of us admire the good things he does, without constantly being reminded of the bad.

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

aveli666 — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:15:07 GMT

bob surunkle:
aveli666:

the facts are all out there. hamilton told the reporters the truth because it is not in his nature to lie. he was told to lie by the team and he went along with it and said he regretted it. what more is there to be discussed?
Exactly, so why keep bringing it up?
And, why do you insist on accusing those of us that are unhappy with him for lying, as spreading lies about him?
These days you can't get away with doing bad things and then hide behind the old saying "I was just following orders", even in a time of war that argument is spurious at best.
If we say Lewis lied, we're telling the truth.........simples!!

there isn't a team of people who have dedicated their lives to spreading lies about any f1 driver except you guys spreading lies about hamilton and he has done nothing to deserve it except become the youngest ever f1 world champion by beating the current field, overtaking them at will and they all complain about how difficult it is to overtake in f1.

give it a break, will you?

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

aveli666 — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:08:27 GMT

KIMBO1:

So Hamilton only lied because he was told to by his team, if they had told him to jump off a cliff would he have done so? think not. He knew exactly what he was doing and went along with it, therefore he was guilty as charged there is no excuse for what he did..

hamilton will never be and was not asked to jump off a cliff unless they went hang gliding.

other drivers have done worst things to win championships so in my eyes hamilton is the fairest, he didn't lie, will not cheat and will not throw his car at other cars either.

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

redfrog — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:54:04 GMT

KIMBO1:

So Hamilton only lied because he was told to by his team, if they had told him to jump off a cliff would he have done so? think not. He knew exactly what he was doing and went along with it, therefore he was guilty as charged there is no excuse for what he did..

You are absolutly right, he lied and theres no mitigating circumstances to justify why. What he did is indefensible...........I will still support him no matter what, but even I can't defend his actions on this, and wouldn't want to.

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

bob surunkle — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:50:31 GMT

aveli666:

the facts are all out there. hamilton told the reporters the truth because it is not in his nature to lie. he was told to lie by the team and he went along with it and said he regretted it. what more is there to be discussed?

Exactly, so why keep bringing it up?

And, why do you insist on accusing those of us that are unhappy with him for lying, as spreading lies about him?

These days you can't get away with doing bad things and then hide behind the old saying "I was just following orders", even in a time of war that argument is spurious at best.

If we say Lewis lied, we're telling the truth.........simples!!

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

KIMBO1 — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:34:21 GMT

So Hamilton only lied because he was told to by his team, if they had told him to jump off a cliff would he have done so? think not. He knew exactly what he was doing and went along with it, therefore he was guilty as charged there is no excuse for what he did..

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

ptaylor747 — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:17:31 GMT

aveli666:
no t.c.:
aveli666:
pedekay:

jax70:
anametoremember:

Hamilton was sent to lie and would not of had to lie if Whitmrsh was a honest team prinicple or got the call right on the tracks from the get go, Hamilton's mistake was listening and trusting Whitmarsh from the beginning. I am in more shock of the mess of Oz and the way Whitmarsh stitched over Hamilton, Davey and Dennis when I look back with hindsight.

What was wrong with the imbeciles in McLaren given Hamilton the right info, what was wrong with the imbeciles at McLaren owning up to their mistake and being truthful with it, instead of sending Lewis out to those manipulation lions who had all the footage and radio convos from the get go.

aname, I know you and I do not always agree but surely you can see that with ham (and subsequently some of his fans,) it is always someone else's fault...I know you don't like whitmarsh holding the post he has. and many would agree with you, but ham's professional integrity should have come to the fore, no matter what, and he should not have lied to the stewards under any circumstances. If he had stood up and told the truth he would have gained some respect from doubters like me...instead it has only fuelled the fires of my dislike of him further - he is just not to be trusted....

I'm a McLaren supporter, jax, but I agree with you about this. I was very disappointed about the whole unnecessary affair, it really let the fans down. You are quite right, Hamilton should not have lied, even if told to do so. But I wouldn't go so far as to say he is not to be trusted in future. He has made a big mistake, and he has admitted it and apologised. I'm prepared to accept that and give him another chance. Maybe if he keeps his nose clean all season you might soften your attitude a little ... ??

in my mind, hamilton never lied. he was asked to lie to the stewards by his team manager and he did, following team orders. as far as those people who have dedicated their lives to spreading lies about hamilton are concerned he lied and they will be happy if the rest of the world believed it. the video is on the bbc website and it does what it says on the tin.

So he didn't lie........and he did........good arguement.....

the facts are all out there. hamilton told the reporters the truth because it is not in his nature to lie. he was told to lie by the team and he went along with it and said he regretted it. what more is there to be discussed?

Lewis did not aplogise for lieing. He apologised for making the stewards look like iditots, he apologised for wasting their time, but he did not apologise for lieing.

As you say, the facts are out there, I suggest you read them.

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

aveli666 — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:45:47 GMT

no t.c.:
aveli666:
pedekay:
jax70:
anametoremember:
Hamilton was sent to lie and would not of had to lie if Whitmrsh was a honest team prinicple or got the call right on the tracks from the get go, Hamilton's mistake was listening and trusting Whitmarsh from the beginning. I am in more shock of the mess of Oz and the way Whitmarsh stitched over Hamilton, Davey and Dennis when I look back with hindsight.
What was wrong with the imbeciles in McLaren given Hamilton the right info, what was wrong with the imbeciles at McLaren owning up to their mistake and being truthful with it, instead of sending Lewis out to those manipulation lions who had all the footage and radio convos from the get go.
aname, I know you and I do not always agree but surely you can see that with ham (and subsequently some of his fans,) it is always someone else's fault...I know you don't like whitmarsh holding the post he has. and many would agree with you, but ham's professional integrity should have come to the fore, no matter what, and he should not have lied to the stewards under any circumstances. If he had stood up and told the truth he would have gained some respect from doubters like me...instead it has only fuelled the fires of my dislike of him further - he is just not to be trusted....
I'm a McLaren supporter, jax, but I agree with you about this. I was very disappointed about the whole unnecessary affair, it really let the fans down. You are quite right, Hamilton should not have lied, even if told to do so. But I wouldn't go so far as to say he is not to be trusted in future. He has made a big mistake, and he has admitted it and apologised. I'm prepared to accept that and give him another chance. Maybe if he keeps his nose clean all season you might soften your attitude a little ... ??
in my mind, hamilton never lied. he was asked to lie to the stewards by his team manager and he did, following team orders. as far as those people who have dedicated their lives to spreading lies about hamilton are concerned he lied and they will be happy if the rest of the world believed it. the video is on the bbc website and it does what it says on the tin.
So he didn't lie........and he did........good arguement.....

the facts are all out there. hamilton told the reporters the truth because it is not in his nature to lie. he was told to lie by the team and he went along with it and said he regretted it. what more is there to be discussed?

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

no t.c. — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:49:37 GMT

aveli666:
pedekay:
jax70:
anametoremember:
Hamilton was sent to lie and would not of had to lie if Whitmrsh was a honest team prinicple or got the call right on the tracks from the get go, Hamilton's mistake was listening and trusting Whitmarsh from the beginning. I am in more shock of the mess of Oz and the way Whitmarsh stitched over Hamilton, Davey and Dennis when I look back with hindsight.
What was wrong with the imbeciles in McLaren given Hamilton the right info, what was wrong with the imbeciles at McLaren owning up to their mistake and being truthful with it, instead of sending Lewis out to those manipulation lions who had all the footage and radio convos from the get go.
aname, I know you and I do not always agree but surely you can see that with ham (and subsequently some of his fans,) it is always someone else's fault...I know you don't like whitmarsh holding the post he has. and many would agree with you, but ham's professional integrity should have come to the fore, no matter what, and he should not have lied to the stewards under any circumstances. If he had stood up and told the truth he would have gained some respect from doubters like me...instead it has only fuelled the fires of my dislike of him further - he is just not to be trusted....
I'm a McLaren supporter, jax, but I agree with you about this. I was very disappointed about the whole unnecessary affair, it really let the fans down. You are quite right, Hamilton should not have lied, even if told to do so. But I wouldn't go so far as to say he is not to be trusted in future. He has made a big mistake, and he has admitted it and apologised. I'm prepared to accept that and give him another chance. Maybe if he keeps his nose clean all season you might soften your attitude a little ... ??
in my mind, hamilton never lied. he was asked to lie to the stewards by his team manager and he did, following team orders. as far as those people who have dedicated their lives to spreading lies about hamilton are concerned he lied and they will be happy if the rest of the world believed it. the video is on the bbc website and it does what it says on the tin.

So he didn't lie........and he did........good arguement.....

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

mikhailv — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:30:03 GMT

aveli666:
pedekay:

jax70:
anametoremember:

Hamilton was sent to lie and would not of had to lie if Whitmrsh was a honest team prinicple or got the call right on the tracks from the get go, Hamilton's mistake was listening and trusting Whitmarsh from the beginning. I am in more shock of the mess of Oz and the way Whitmarsh stitched over Hamilton, Davey and Dennis when I look back with hindsight.

What was wrong with the imbeciles in McLaren given Hamilton the right info, what was wrong with the imbeciles at McLaren owning up to their mistake and being truthful with it, instead of sending Lewis out to those manipulation lions who had all the footage and radio convos from the get go.

aname, I know you and I do not always agree but surely you can see that with ham (and subsequently some of his fans,) it is always someone else's fault...I know you don't like whitmarsh holding the post he has. and many would agree with you, but ham's professional integrity should have come to the fore, no matter what, and he should not have lied to the stewards under any circumstances. If he had stood up and told the truth he would have gained some respect from doubters like me...instead it has only fuelled the fires of my dislike of him further - he is just not to be trusted....

I'm a McLaren supporter, jax, but I agree with you about this. I was very disappointed about the whole unnecessary affair, it really let the fans down. You are quite right, Hamilton should not have lied, even if told to do so. But I wouldn't go so far as to say he is not to be trusted in future. He has made a big mistake, and he has admitted it and apologised. I'm prepared to accept that and give him another chance. Maybe if he keeps his nose clean all season you might soften your attitude a little ... ??

in my mind, hamilton never lied. he was asked to lie to the stewards by his team manager and he did, following team orders. as far as those people who have dedicated their lives to spreading lies about hamilton are concerned he lied and they will be happy if the rest of the world believed it. the video is on the bbc website and it does what it says on the tin.

Hold on, so in your mind he never lied, then he wasked asked to lie and he did. So he lied.

You really are making a fool out of yourself.

The only problem lewis had, was that he would have GOT AWAY WITH IT and we'd be NONE THE WISER had he not gone and told a different story to the press. Whether he was honest with a press or not, it doesnt matter, because he lied to the governing body!

How stupid can you be to lie behind closed doors,then when youve got the media infront of you he tells the truth. Not that the FIA wont read it in a million papers and 100 different languages. He was an idiot!

Not only that, but in the end, the lie was to discredit an honest competitor and to get him disqualified from a good race that Jarno had to gain 1 word championship point.! Its disgusting that not just hamilton, but the team wanted to do that.

Whether or not Hamilton should have moved over, it's mclarens OWN fault and their mistake, not Trulli's. They gave Jarno the point and thats it. Lewis let him by, whether he should or not is irrelevant because its their own fault.

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

justrace — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 06:46:30 GMT

no t.c.:
aveli666:
no t.c.:
aveli666:
justrace:
aveli666:
jax70:
aveli666:

here is a little story about the 'honest' members of the fia who found hamilton guilty of lying following the incidents in albert park this year.
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=38324
aveli - not sure how you can cast any doubt on the fact that he was guilty of lying - he admitted on TV 'live' and sort of apologised !!!
jax70, hamilton said one of his team managers asked him to lie and he did, as a result the team manager was dismissed from mclaren. hamilton told the truth to the media as soon as he was out of the car and was convinced to lie to the stewards and he did. there is no doubt about that.
if i think you are lying about something and i have substantial evidence that you are lying, i will tell you that you are lying and show you the evidence. that's what the fia should have done with hamilton.
That's what the stewards did, and despite that Hamilton did not own up to it during the meeting with the stewards. Only afterwards he had the guts to apologise in public. You have to accept it, Hamilton lied, and he hold up the lie even when confronted with substantial evidence. I don't think many people would have been too upset about the lie - or talking the incident up - in the first hearing. But sticking to it in the second hearing despite the substantial evidence is quite outrageous.
Regarding Donnelly's dealings, that is on a different piece of paper, and I am sure we will hear more about this and whether there is a conflict of interest. However, at the moment I cannot see what we have seen in Hamilton's case, which is substantial evidence.
very interesting justrace, do you honestly believe that if you lied to me and i presented you if evidence that you were lying you would repeat your lie? hamilton was asked on two occasions and he repeated the lie but no evidence was presented to him at any stage.
####
if the stewards took their time to look at the evidence in the first place they would not need to interview any of the drivers and decide on the positions each driver should finish.
####
no doubt hamilton knew he was lying because he told the truth to the journalist the moment he got out of his car and was made to change his story and he did because he believed he would get away with it. it was the truth which he reported to the journalists which got him in trouble with the stewards.
any way it doesn't stop him from doing this.
####
So what you are saying is Hamilton's repeated lying is everyone elses fault but his own?
Wow, that boy really can't do wrong by you. But have you consideded you are defending the defenceless. Hamilton did, after all, admit to lying to the stewards didn't he?
no t.c., hamilton did not lie. he told the truth to the media as soon as he was out of his car. he told the truth and intended to until his team manager convinced him to lie. he said so in his public apology and added that he was not a liar and has not got to where he is by lying. the man who got him to lie has since been sacked from mclaren and am sure mclaren regret sacking him because his intention was to benefit the team, not himself.
i don't know how many times i can repeat this before you understand that hamilton is not a liar nor a cheat. you can see from the body language of his car when he is in it. he races hard but doesn't try to compromise others. did you see 'hamilton and alonso do battle down the field'.? i noticed how alonso threw his car at hamilton after going off track in error and returning to the track when it wasn't safe to do so. compare that to hamilton being pushed off track by alonso and returning to the track, he made sure there was enough room for heidfeld and didn't attempt to stop heidfeld from passing him.
the long and short of it is hamilton is not a liar and he conducts himself brilliantly. too many people have dedicated their lives to spreading lies about hamilton and i hope you are not one of them.
It bares no relevence what he told the press. He lied to the stewards....twice, before admitting the error of his ways....do you refute this fact?
Do you see whats wrong with the two parts of your post I've highlighted? In the first sentence you say he didn't lie and then you say he did lie....I understand what you are trying to do, defend Hamiltons character, which I'm sure is a fine character indeed, but in this instance his character failed him and he lied.....twice, to the stewards.

In the second hearing the stewards played back the radio conversation and the interview before the first hearing. That fulfills your criteria of substantial evidence (see highlighted above).

If somebody asks you to tell a lie, and you then tell it, it still makes you a liar.

Hamilton was asked to lie, and he lied, despite substantial evidence. Hamilton cheated Trulli out of any points for his race, despite Trulli had nothing done wrong.

Hamilton is a cheat and a liar. He has apologised for it. Most people have moved on. Maybe you should just take it on the chin as well, and move on too, aveli.

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

aveli666 — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:12:01 GMT

pedekay:
jax70:
anametoremember:
Hamilton was sent to lie and would not of had to lie if Whitmrsh was a honest team prinicple or got the call right on the tracks from the get go, Hamilton's mistake was listening and trusting Whitmarsh from the beginning. I am in more shock of the mess of Oz and the way Whitmarsh stitched over Hamilton, Davey and Dennis when I look back with hindsight.
What was wrong with the imbeciles in McLaren given Hamilton the right info, what was wrong with the imbeciles at McLaren owning up to their mistake and being truthful with it, instead of sending Lewis out to those manipulation lions who had all the footage and radio convos from the get go.
aname, I know you and I do not always agree but surely you can see that with ham (and subsequently some of his fans,) it is always someone else's fault...I know you don't like whitmarsh holding the post he has. and many would agree with you, but ham's professional integrity should have come to the fore, no matter what, and he should not have lied to the stewards under any circumstances. If he had stood up and told the truth he would have gained some respect from doubters like me...instead it has only fuelled the fires of my dislike of him further - he is just not to be trusted....
I'm a McLaren supporter, jax, but I agree with you about this. I was very disappointed about the whole unnecessary affair, it really let the fans down. You are quite right, Hamilton should not have lied, even if told to do so. But I wouldn't go so far as to say he is not to be trusted in future. He has made a big mistake, and he has admitted it and apologised. I'm prepared to accept that and give him another chance. Maybe if he keeps his nose clean all season you might soften your attitude a little ... ??

in my mind, hamilton never lied. he was asked to lie to the stewards by his team manager and he did, following team orders. as far as those people who have dedicated their lives to spreading lies about hamilton are concerned he lied and they will be happy if the rest of the world believed it. the video is on the bbc website and it does what it says on the tin.

Re: those who found hamilton guilty of lying.

pedekay — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:50:17 GMT

jax70:
anametoremember:

Hamilton was sent to lie and would not of had to lie if Whitmrsh was a honest team prinicple or got the call right on the tracks from the get go, Hamilton's mistake was listening and trusting Whitmarsh from the beginning. I am in more shock of the mess of Oz and the way Whitmarsh stitched over Hamilton, Davey and Dennis when I look back with hindsight.

What was wrong with the imbeciles in McLaren given Hamilton the right info, what was wrong with the imbeciles at McLaren owning up to their mistake and being truthful with it, instead of sending Lewis out to those manipulation lions who had all the footage and radio convos from the get go.

aname, I know you and I do not always agree but surely you can see that with ham (and subsequently some of his fans,) it is always someone else's fault...I know you don't like whitmarsh holding the post he has. and many would agree with you, but ham's professional integrity should have come to the fore, no matter what, and he should not have lied to the stewards under any circumstances. If he had stood up and told the truth he would have gained some respect from doubters like me...instead it has only fuelled the fires of my dislike of him further - he is just not to be trusted....

I'm a McLaren supporter, jax, but I agree with you about this. I was very disappointed about the whole unnecessary affair, it really let the fans down. You are quite right, Hamilton should not have lied, even if told to do so. But I wouldn't go so far as to say he is not to be trusted in future. He has made a big mistake, and he has admitted it and apologised. I'm prepared to accept that and give him another chance. Maybe if he keeps his nose clean all season you might soften your attitude a little ... ??