I hate the way a safety car incident can spoil a racers strategy.  Why can’t there be a process where either electorally from race control or manually (within an allotted time) drivers engage their pit lane limiters or alternative speed to maintain the gap between divers?

I know later in a race when there are cars across the entire track this will not work as it will not give the marshals enough space to work.

But

As a lot of the SC incidents happen near the beginning of the race where sometime strategy is important, as long as there is a minimum distance (time wise) between cars this would not destroy race strategy and maintain safety

ex_lurker:

I hate the way a safety car incident can spoil a racers strategy.  Why can’t there be a process where either electorally from race control or manually (within an allotted time) drivers engage their pit lane limiters or alternative speed to maintain the gap between divers?

 

I know later in a race when there are cars across the entire track this will not work as it will not give the marshals enough space to work.

 

But

 

As a lot of the SC incidents happen near the beginning of the race where sometime strategy is important, as long as there is a minimum distance (time wise) between cars this would not destroy race strategy and maintain safety

Good post, I feel your pain in this. It must be soul destroying for team/drivers to have to endure the SC when they are on a race winning or even a good race strategy.

Good idea on the limiter BUT I feel eventualitys like this happen and it can add some magic to the race thereafter. Its only when people abuse the SC like FB and Co when it becomes wrong.

If the nature of a race involves an innocent accident which affects the outcome of the race then so be it. Fate affects us all, unfortunatley it is not allways welcomed by everyone.

ex_lurker:

I hate the way a safety car incident can spoil a racers strategy.  Why can’t there be a process where either electorally from race control or manually (within an allotted time) drivers engage their pit lane limiters or alternative speed to maintain the gap between divers?

 

I know later in a race when there are cars across the entire track this will not work as it will not give the marshals enough space to work.

 

But

 

As a lot of the SC incidents happen near the beginning of the race where sometime strategy is important, as long as there is a minimum distance (time wise) between cars this would not destroy race strategy and maintain safety

I agree and it will also reduce the temptation to cheat!

ex_lurker:

I hate the way a safety car incident can spoil a racers strategy.  Why can’t there be a process where either electorally from race control or manually (within an allotted time) drivers engage their pit lane limiters or alternative speed to maintain the gap between divers?

 

I know later in a race when there are cars across the entire track this will not work as it will not give the marshals enough space to work.

 

But

 

As a lot of the SC incidents happen near the beginning of the race where sometime strategy is important, as long as there is a minimum distance (time wise) between cars this would not destroy race strategy and maintain safety

It's an interesting thought, although one could say that at some point will affect everyone so its swings and roundabouts. Also if, as you say, safety car incidents mainly happen at the begining then this is just another factor that has to be taken into account by the stratagists.

It's a good idea though,

ex_lurker:

I hate the way a safety car incident can spoil a racers strategy.  Why can’t there be a process where either electorally from race control or manually (within an allotted time) drivers engage their pit lane limiters or alternative speed to maintain the gap between divers?

 

I know later in a race when there are cars across the entire track this will not work as it will not give the marshals enough space to work.

 

But

 

As a lot of the SC incidents happen near the beginning of the race where sometime strategy is important, as long as there is a minimum distance (time wise) between cars this would not destroy race strategy and maintain safety

Interesting but ultimately impractical. The SC is the same for everyone ( unless of course you are Renault)

It’s an awful shame having to share an office with football fanatics. The continuous inane and circular arguments these people have. The never ending debate of who is the better team, Liverpool or Man u? All this argued by my colleagues, Idris (born in Kenilworth) and Jorjeet (Born in India and a wonderful example of immigration working at its best.) Both argue their points passionately without end and it’s fair to say they are without doubt the best of friends.

I try to interject, and explain the finer point of racing, wing settings and tyre technology all these wonderful attributes that make our world far superior to theirs. You won’t be surprised to hear it goes straight over their heads.

Jorjey and I often have a little bet every now and again, and regular members of our Forum will well know that I can’t resist a little wager.  This time it is 50 questions on F1 from a well known quiz site. The bet is this, I get 45 of 50 right and I win the princely sum of two of our English pounds and should I fail then it’s a big mac meal for Jorjey.

Flying the flag for our sport I waltz to an amazing 49 out of 50 and those two pound coins are jangling in the trousers as I speak, however there is a serious and I mean SERIOUS bone of contention. The question is this:

When was the safety car first introduced in F1 ?

I pause and think carefully as it could be a trick.

I answer 1993 (Damon leading in awful conditions in his 4^th GP Brazil ‘93)

Wrong comes the reply, it was 1992! (According to the web site)

I beg to differ, but as Jorj knows little about racing (and he was only 5 years old in 1993) discretion is the better point of valour and I graciously concede. What the hell I still got me two quid.

So as this post was entitled safety car, can any of you tell me the correct answer, when was the safety car first used in Formula 1?

r1_racing:

It’s an awful shame having to share an office with football fanatics. The continuous inane and circular arguments these people have. The never ending debate of who is the better team, Liverpool or Man u? All this argued by my colleagues, Idris (born in Kenilworth) and Jorjeet (Born in India and a wonderful example of immigration working at its best.) Both argue their points passionately without end and it’s fair to say they are without doubt the best of friends.

 

I try to interject, and explain the finer point of racing, wing settings and tyre technology all these wonderful attributes that make our world far superior to theirs. You won’t be surprised to hear it goes straight over their heads.

 

Jorjey and I often have a little bet every now and again, and regular members of our Forum will well know that I can’t resist a little wager.  This time it is 50 questions on F1 from a well known quiz site. The bet is this, I get 45 of 50 right and I win the princely sum of two of our English pounds and should I fail then it’s a big mac meal for Jorjey.

 

Flying the flag for our sport I waltz to an amazing 49 out of 50 and those two pound coins are jangling in the trousers as I speak, however there is a serious and I mean SERIOUS bone of contention. The question is this:

 

When was the safety car first introduced in F1 ?

 

I pause and think carefully as it could be a trick.

 

I answer 1993 (Damon leading in awful conditions in his 4^th GP Brazil ‘93)

 

Wrong comes the reply, it was 1992! (According to the web site)

 

I beg to differ, but as Jorj knows little about racing (and he was only 5 years old in 1993) discretion is the better point of valour and I graciously concede. What the hell I still got me two quid.

 

So as this post was entitled safety car, can any of you tell me the correct answer, when was the safety car first used in Formula 1?

Well according to that well known on-line encyclopaedia it was 1973 but not officially written in the rules until 1993. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_car

r1_racing:

It’s an awful shame having to share an office with football fanatics. The continuous inane and circular arguments these people have. The never ending debate of who is the better team, Liverpool or Man u? All this argued by my colleagues, Idris (born in Kenilworth) and Jorjeet (Born in India and a wonderful example of immigration working at its best.) Both argue their points passionately without end and it’s fair to say they are without doubt the best of friends.

 

I try to interject, and explain the finer point of racing, wing settings and tyre technology all these wonderful attributes that make our world far superior to theirs. You won’t be surprised to hear it goes straight over their heads.

 

Jorjey and I often have a little bet every now and again, and regular members of our Forum will well know that I can’t resist a little wager.  This time it is 50 questions on F1 from a well known quiz site. The bet is this, I get 45 of 50 right and I win the princely sum of two of our English pounds and should I fail then it’s a big mac meal for Jorjey.

 

Flying the flag for our sport I waltz to an amazing 49 out of 50 and those two pound coins are jangling in the trousers as I speak, however there is a serious and I mean SERIOUS bone of contention. The question is this:

 

When was the safety car first introduced in F1 ?

 

I pause and think carefully as it could be a trick.

 

I answer 1993 (Damon leading in awful conditions in his 4^th GP Brazil ‘93)

 

Wrong comes the reply, it was 1992! (According to the web site)

 

I beg to differ, but as Jorj knows little about racing (and he was only 5 years old in 1993) discretion is the better point of valour and I graciously concede. What the hell I still got me two quid.

 

So as this post was entitled safety car, can any of you tell me the correct answer, when was the safety car first used in Formula 1?

 Well my dad, says it was 1973 in the Canadian Grand Prix, but the Safety Car took its place in front of the wrong driver, which placed part of the field incorrectly one lap down. It took several hours after the end of the race to straighten out who the winner actually was. Starting from the, 1993 Season safety car was introduced to official rules. It was used in Brazilian and British Grands Prix that year.

 So i checked it out on Wiki and they say the same. 

ex_lurker:

I hate the way a safety car incident can spoil a racers strategy.  Why can’t there be a process where either electorally from race control or manually (within an allotted time) drivers engage their pit lane limiters or alternative speed to maintain the gap between divers?

 

I know later in a race when there are cars across the entire track this will not work as it will not give the marshals enough space to work.

 

But

 

As a lot of the SC incidents happen near the beginning of the race where sometime strategy is important, as long as there is a minimum distance (time wise) between cars this would not destroy race strategy and maintain safety

I've sometimes wondered if the SC will ever be replaced by an automated Race Control command directly to the standardized ECU. It would be trivial to implement from a technology point of view, but I wonder about the safety implications of it.

There would also be cries of "unfair!" (especially from this forum!) because it would be impossible for the gap between the cars to be kept the same. Obviously, the car would need to be slowed before the limiter was activated and, although this could be done automatically by the ECU, a car travelling at 200mph down a straight would actually increase the gap to a car behind going round a slow chicane because the slower car would have the limiter engaged almost immediately, whereas the faster car would need to be slowed gradually (rather than the ECU stamping on the brakes ) before the limiter could be activated.

Even with this automated system, there would be winners and losers. Although, it could be argued it's unlikely that anybody would lose out as much as they do at the moment. On the flip side of that, at the moment, everybody loses out in equal measure which is fairer overall.....

mattw42:

ex_lurker:

I hate the way a safety car incident can spoil a racers strategy.  Why can’t there be a process where either electorally from race control or manually (within an allotted time) drivers engage their pit lane limiters or alternative speed to maintain the gap between divers?

 

I know later in a race when there are cars across the entire track this will not work as it will not give the marshals enough space to work.

 

But

 

As a lot of the SC incidents happen near the beginning of the race where sometime strategy is important, as long as there is a minimum distance (time wise) between cars this would not destroy race strategy and maintain safety

I've sometimes wondered if the SC will ever be replaced by an automated Race Control command directly to the standardized ECU. It would be trivial to implement from a technology point of view, but I wonder about the safety implications of it.

There would also be cries of "unfair!" (especially from this forum!) because it would be impossible for the gap between the cars to be kept the same. Obviously, the car would need to be slowed before the limiter was activated and, although this could be done automatically by the ECU, a car travelling at 200mph down a straight would actually increase the gap to a car behind going round a slow chicane because the slower car would have the limiter engaged almost immediately, whereas the faster car would need to be slowed gradually (rather than the ECU stamping on the brakes ) before the limiter could be activated.

Even with this automated system, there would be winners and losers. Although, it could be argued it's unlikely that anybody would lose out as much as they do at the moment. On the flip side of that, at the moment, everybody loses out in equal measure which is fairer overall.....

Hi

Extremely well argued.

It would be particularly difficult at the re start, when would you switch the limiters off.

All the cars when the leader crossed the line, giving a massive advantage to cars on the straight, especially if the last corner includes a chicane.

As each car crosses the line, allowing each car to accelerate away from the car behind, thus increasing the gaps.

All cars before the last corner, which would allow the cars to close up or pull away.

Which ever way you tried it you would disadvantage someone

Unfortunately it is one of those problems that does not have a perfect answer.

Regards

Racer111 (Fozzie)

PS        I got engaged at the end of 73 (now I really am showing my age) and am sure I can remember a group of us at the party talking about the use of the safety car, that had been introduced that year, so I would have plumbed for that year too.

racer 111:

mattw42:

ex_lurker:

I hate the way a safety car incident can spoil a racers strategy.  Why can’t there be a process where either electorally from race control or manually (within an allotted time) drivers engage their pit lane limiters or alternative speed to maintain the gap between divers?

 

I know later in a race when there are cars across the entire track this will not work as it will not give the marshals enough space to work.

 

But

 

As a lot of the SC incidents happen near the beginning of the race where sometime strategy is important, as long as there is a minimum distance (time wise) between cars this would not destroy race strategy and maintain safety

I've sometimes wondered if the SC will ever be replaced by an automated Race Control command directly to the standardized ECU. It would be trivial to implement from a technology point of view, but I wonder about the safety implications of it.

There would also be cries of "unfair!" (especially from this forum!) because it would be impossible for the gap between the cars to be kept the same. Obviously, the car would need to be slowed before the limiter was activated and, although this could be done automatically by the ECU, a car travelling at 200mph down a straight would actually increase the gap to a car behind going round a slow chicane because the slower car would have the limiter engaged almost immediately, whereas the faster car would need to be slowed gradually (rather than the ECU stamping on the brakes ) before the limiter could be activated.

Even with this automated system, there would be winners and losers. Although, it could be argued it's unlikely that anybody would lose out as much as they do at the moment. On the flip side of that, at the moment, everybody loses out in equal measure which is fairer overall.....

 

Hi

 

Extremely well argued.

 

It would be particularly difficult at the re start, when would you switch the limiters off.

 

All the cars when the leader crossed the line, giving a massive advantage to cars on the straight, especially if the last corner includes a chicane.

 

As each car crosses the line, allowing each car to accelerate away from the car behind, thus increasing the gaps.

 

All cars before the last corner, which would allow the cars to close up or pull away.

 

Which ever way you tried it you would disadvantage someone

 

Unfortunately it is one of those problems that does not have a perfect answer.

 

Regards

 

Racer111 (Fozzie)

 

PS        I got engaged at the end of 73 (now I really am showing my age) and am sure I can remember a group of us at the party talking about the use of the safety car, that had been introduced that year, so I would have plumbed for that year too.

 

Hah! Good point! I hadn't even considered when to turn it off!!!

Another thing to consider is what the driver is doing with the throttle when the limiter is disengaged - if they had their foot buried to the floor and were going round a corner, relying on the limiter to maintain their speed, and all of a sudden they get full power back..... that wouldn't end well!!

I guess the SC is the lesser of the evils.

Thanks guys, at the time of my original post I thought my idea was sound..  But after reading your replies I can see that it doesn’t fly.

I guess if I’m honest I only get P’d off with the safety car when it is one of my guys suffer, I must admit if its someone else then I guess I do smile inside, so your right, it does add another element to the race.  So it’s a necessary evil.

I don’t want to go off topic but as I guess this will be last post to this thread as I think all valid point have been made…..

It’s time to say who “My guys” are

I’m a Brit, I live in Bali at the moment so I support anyone who’s a Brit and nothing to do with Ferrari, it just an emotional thing but I’m allowed.  I dread the day a Brit drives in a red car, I’d have real problem.  Any maybe a subject for another thread

Thanks again

ex_lurker:

Thanks guys, at the time of my original post I thought my idea was sound..  But after reading your replies I can see that it doesn’t fly.

 

I guess if I’m honest I only get P’d off with the safety car when it is one of my guys suffer, I must admit if its someone else then I guess I do smile inside, so your right, it does add another element to the race.  So it’s a necessary evil.

 

I don’t want to go off topic but as I guess this will be last post to this thread as I think all valid point have been made…..

 

It’s time to say who “My guys” are

 

I’m a Brit, I live in Bali at the moment so I support anyone who’s a Brit and nothing to do with Ferrari, it just an emotional thing but I’m allowed.  I dread the day a Brit drives in a red car, I’d have real problem.  Any maybe a subject for another thread

 

Thanks again

 

You need proof to back up your claim about Bali. Otherwise we will just assume it's a bedsit in Bolton.

Do you hate Mansell and Irvine then for their spells at Ferrari?

Also just to add: I think the fact that the cars do bunch up is actually the purpose of the safety car, for a large part.

The track marshalls usually wait for the 'train' to establish itself before attempting to clear debris etc from the track. This means that they get the maximum possible amount of time on a clear track to do their stuff with no risk of a car appearing.

justrace:

ex_lurker:

Thanks guys, at the time of my original post I thought my idea was sound..  But after reading your replies I can see that it doesn’t fly.

 

I guess if I’m honest I only get P’d off with the safety car when it is one of my guys suffer, I must admit if its someone else then I guess I do smile inside, so your right, it does add another element to the race.  So it’s a necessary evil.

 

I don’t want to go off topic but as I guess this will be last post to this thread as I think all valid point have been made…..

 

It’s time to say who “My guys” are

 

I’m a Brit, I live in Bali at the moment so I support anyone who’s a Brit and nothing to do with Ferrari, it just an emotional thing but I’m allowed.  I dread the day a Brit drives in a red car, I’d have real problem.  Any maybe a subject for another thread

 

Thanks again

 

You need proof to back up your claim about Bali. Otherwise we will just assume it's a bedsit in Bolton.

Do you hate Mansell and Irvine then for their spells at Ferrari?

As said in my previous post. This is now off topic, if you want to start a new thread to discuss my credentials I’ll gladly contribute also I don’t see why I have to.  I was going to start a thread to introduce myself as a new poster but decided against it as I thought it would be a little self indulgent but if you want to start it OK.

I cant see anywhere in my last post where I used the word “hate”  As for Irvine, I always supported the underdog which I believe he was especially considering his team mate, who was probably the reason why I came to dislike the red cars and as Mansell predated all of this I can honestly say that I supported him whole heartedly