well - that's one of the players out then...

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/raikkonens-f1-career-over/

same story in autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80187

He’s only got himself to blame (or his management team!) I seriously think he’ll find it hard to get a decent drive in 2011. Red Bull like their drivers ‘on topic’ and PR friendly – this is not Kimi. (one of the sticking points with Mclaren negotiations being availability for sponsors days.) Nobody is going to pay his wage demands this year what makes him think it will happen next year?
I don’t think the sport will neccesarily miss him either, if we have an exciting season he’ll be forgotten by June – did we miss Schumacher in 2007? .. er .. nope .. too much going on. I reckon there’s an 80% chance we won’t see him in F1 again .. maybe if Massa can’t make a full comeback Ferrari might want him again next year. F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t.

twinkle_toes22:

same story in autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80187

He’s only got himself to blame (or his management team!) I seriously think he’ll find it hard to get a decent drive in 2011. Red Bull like their drivers ‘on topic’ and PR friendly – this is not Kimi. (one of the sticking points with Mclaren negotiations being availability for sponsors days.) Nobody is going to pay his wage demands this year what makes him think it will happen next year?
I don’t think the sport will neccesarily miss him either, if we have an exciting season he’ll be forgotten by June – did we miss Schumacher in 2007? .. er .. nope .. too much going on. I reckon there’s an 80% chance we won’t see him in F1 again .. maybe if Massa can’t make a full comeback Ferrari might want him again next year. F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t.

Another great post from you, twinkle_toes.  I particularly like this:  "F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t. "  It does seem that he (or his manager) has been pig-headed over issues like the days for sponsors.  There's no getting around it, the drivers just have to make themselves available for the sponsors.

pedekay:

twinkle_toes22:

same story in autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80187

He’s only got himself to blame (or his management team!) I seriously think he’ll find it hard to get a decent drive in 2011. Red Bull like their drivers ‘on topic’ and PR friendly – this is not Kimi. (one of the sticking points with Mclaren negotiations being availability for sponsors days.) Nobody is going to pay his wage demands this year what makes him think it will happen next year?
I don’t think the sport will neccesarily miss him either, if we have an exciting season he’ll be forgotten by June – did we miss Schumacher in 2007? .. er .. nope .. too much going on. I reckon there’s an 80% chance we won’t see him in F1 again .. maybe if Massa can’t make a full comeback Ferrari might want him again next year. F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t.

Another great post from you, twinkle_toes.  I particularly like this:  "F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t. "  It does seem that he (or his manager) has been pig-headed over issues like the days for sponsors.  There's no getting around it, the drivers just have to make themselves available for the sponsors.

I guess it all came down to the offer McLaren made. I don't think anybody can say that Raikkonen did not consider McLaren seriously. But you cannot expect to pay a minimum and expect a maximum. My guess is that Raikkonen would have signed for the same contract Button got - or the other way round, Button would also not be at McLaren if he was offered the same contract as Raikkonen.

This all seems to have Dennis' handwriting, and smells like cheap revenge on Mercedes.

justrace:

pedekay:

twinkle_toes22:

same story in autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80187

He’s only got himself to blame (or his management team!) I seriously think he’ll find it hard to get a decent drive in 2011. Red Bull like their drivers ‘on topic’ and PR friendly – this is not Kimi. (one of the sticking points with Mclaren negotiations being availability for sponsors days.) Nobody is going to pay his wage demands this year what makes him think it will happen next year?
I don’t think the sport will neccesarily miss him either, if we have an exciting season he’ll be forgotten by June – did we miss Schumacher in 2007? .. er .. nope .. too much going on. I reckon there’s an 80% chance we won’t see him in F1 again .. maybe if Massa can’t make a full comeback Ferrari might want him again next year. F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t.

Another great post from you, twinkle_toes.  I particularly like this:  "F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t. "  It does seem that he (or his manager) has been pig-headed over issues like the days for sponsors.  There's no getting around it, the drivers just have to make themselves available for the sponsors.

I guess it all came down to the offer McLaren made. I don't think anybody can say that Raikkonen did not consider McLaren seriously. But you cannot expect to pay a minimum and expect a maximum. My guess is that Raikkonen would have signed for the same contract Button got - or the other way round, Button would also not be at McLaren if he was offered the same contract as Raikkonen.

This all seems to have Dennis' handwriting, and smells like cheap revenge on Mercedes.

Justrace, you have posed some very interesting questions here.  Do you think that the deal that Raikkonen was offered, was not as good as the one that Button was offered?  Why do you think this?  Does Ron Dennis control the offers that McLaren make to drivers, and why would he want to revenge himself on Mercedes?

pedekay:

justrace:

pedekay:

twinkle_toes22:

same story in autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80187

He’s only got himself to blame (or his management team!) I seriously think he’ll find it hard to get a decent drive in 2011. Red Bull like their drivers ‘on topic’ and PR friendly – this is not Kimi. (one of the sticking points with Mclaren negotiations being availability for sponsors days.) Nobody is going to pay his wage demands this year what makes him think it will happen next year?
I don’t think the sport will neccesarily miss him either, if we have an exciting season he’ll be forgotten by June – did we miss Schumacher in 2007? .. er .. nope .. too much going on. I reckon there’s an 80% chance we won’t see him in F1 again .. maybe if Massa can’t make a full comeback Ferrari might want him again next year. F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t.

Another great post from you, twinkle_toes.  I particularly like this:  "F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t. "  It does seem that he (or his manager) has been pig-headed over issues like the days for sponsors.  There's no getting around it, the drivers just have to make themselves available for the sponsors.

I guess it all came down to the offer McLaren made. I don't think anybody can say that Raikkonen did not consider McLaren seriously. But you cannot expect to pay a minimum and expect a maximum. My guess is that Raikkonen would have signed for the same contract Button got - or the other way round, Button would also not be at McLaren if he was offered the same contract as Raikkonen.

This all seems to have Dennis' handwriting, and smells like cheap revenge on Mercedes.

Justrace, you have posed some very interesting questions here.  Do you think that the deal that Raikkonen was offered, was not as good as the one that Button was offered?  Why do you think this?  Does Ron Dennis control the offers that McLaren make to drivers, and why would he want to revenge himself on Mercedes?

Fact is, we do not know the figures that were on offer. Nick Fry has said they are not true. But even if it is true that Button gets less from McLaren than was on offer from Brawn, I still think it was more than the 5 million that were apparently offered to Raikkonen by McLaren.

Well, the other part is a bit complicated. I am already being accused of making deragoratory remarks about McLaren, which I find quite ridiculous. So let me first say that I have great respect for McLaren and in particular Ron Dennis. But some people don't seem to understand that one can have respect and still maintain a critical view. I have been accused of that already two years ago when I said that Mercedes wants the majority share of McLaren or they will leave and do their own thing. But anyway.

The short of it is, that McLaren got the boot from Mercedes. The contract was terminated prematurely. That is something that does not go down well with Dennis, regardless for the reasons. And Dennis is also well known to hold a grudge. The build up to this is that it was Mercedes who saved McLaren from a two year ban because of spygate. I can only guess what was arranged in the background at McLaren as outcome of that. Dennis resigned as CEO after liegate, again we can only speculate what was going on in the background. But we can assume that he did not do it out of love for producing sport cars. And whatever you think about these events, you will know that Mercedes said the main reason for quitting McLaren was their engagement in sport cars. And of course it was a big blow for Mercedes to lose their WDC driver within two days of announcing the Brawn deal.

Well, put the pieces together and chances are you will also be accused of making deragtory comments about McLaren.

justrace:

pedekay:

justrace:

pedekay:

twinkle_toes22:

same story in autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80187

He’s only got himself to blame (or his management team!) I seriously think he’ll find it hard to get a decent drive in 2011. Red Bull like their drivers ‘on topic’ and PR friendly – this is not Kimi. (one of the sticking points with Mclaren negotiations being availability for sponsors days.) Nobody is going to pay his wage demands this year what makes him think it will happen next year?
I don’t think the sport will neccesarily miss him either, if we have an exciting season he’ll be forgotten by June – did we miss Schumacher in 2007? .. er .. nope .. too much going on. I reckon there’s an 80% chance we won’t see him in F1 again .. maybe if Massa can’t make a full comeback Ferrari might want him again next year. F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t.

Another great post from you, twinkle_toes.  I particularly like this:  "F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t. "  It does seem that he (or his manager) has been pig-headed over issues like the days for sponsors.  There's no getting around it, the drivers just have to make themselves available for the sponsors.

I guess it all came down to the offer McLaren made. I don't think anybody can say that Raikkonen did not consider McLaren seriously. But you cannot expect to pay a minimum and expect a maximum. My guess is that Raikkonen would have signed for the same contract Button got - or the other way round, Button would also not be at McLaren if he was offered the same contract as Raikkonen.

This all seems to have Dennis' handwriting, and smells like cheap revenge on Mercedes.

Justrace, you have posed some very interesting questions here.  Do you think that the deal that Raikkonen was offered, was not as good as the one that Button was offered?  Why do you think this?  Does Ron Dennis control the offers that McLaren make to drivers, and why would he want to revenge himself on Mercedes?

Fact is, we do not know the figures that were on offer. Nick Fry has said they are not true. But even if it is true that Button gets less from McLaren than was on offer from Brawn, I still think it was more than the 5 million that were apparently offered to Raikkonen by McLaren.

Well, the other part is a bit complicated. I am already being accused of making deragoratory remarks about McLaren, which I find quite ridiculous. So let me first say that I have great respect for McLaren and in particular Ron Dennis. But some people don't seem to understand that one can have respect and still maintain a critical view. I have been accused of that already two years ago when I said that Mercedes wants the majority share of McLaren or they will leave and do their own thing. But anyway.

The short of it is, that McLaren got the boot from Mercedes. The contract was terminated prematurely. That is something that does not go down well with Dennis, regardless for the reasons. And Dennis is also well known to hold a grudge. The build up to this is that it was Mercedes who saved McLaren from a two year ban because of spygate. I can only guess what was arranged in the background at McLaren as outcome of that. Dennis resigned as CEO after liegate, again we can only speculate what was going on in the background. But we can assume that he did not do it out of love for producing sport cars. And whatever you think about these events, you will know that Mercedes said the main reason for quitting McLaren was their engagement in sport cars. And of course it was a big blow for Mercedes to lose their WDC driver within two days of announcing the Brawn deal.

Well, put the pieces together and chances are you will also be accused of making deragtory comments about McLaren.

Is it confirmed that Raikkonen was offered £5 mill?  There are comments that for Raikkonen it was the commitment to sponsors days, and the refusal to allow rallying, which were the more important factor.  After all, he doesn't need the money as such.  But it's speculation unless we can get confirmation of exactly what the offers were.

How did Mercedes save McLaren from a two year ban after spygate?  Did they do a deal with Max, for the money instead of the ban?  (btw, it is my decided opinion that Max did a deal with Renault about crashgate - put your hands up, plead guilty and we'll let you off with a slapped wrist, so long as you stay in F1 - but this is off topic, sorry.)

I think that Ron's resignation was the payoff for a lesser punishment after liegate, that seems clear.  Do you think there was link back to spygate there?

Mercedes may have said that the sportscar involvement is why they left, but wasn't it really about wanting to actually control the team, a control which they have got with Brawn?

Now, you say that "it was a big blow for Mercedes to lose their WDC driver within two days of announcing the Brawn deal".  I think you are suggesting that this was Ron's payback against Mercedes for their leaving.  Fry and Button (that sounds like a comedy team!) have both said that Brawn offered more money than McLaren, so it wasn't just about the money for Button.  (He talks about the new challenges.)  But how could Ron make Button's decision for him?

Anyway, justrace, thanks for trying to enlighten me, and I probably need more enlightenment please, if you can be bothered.  And maybe one way to avoid accusations of making derogatory comments about McLaren would be if you made critical comments about some of the other teams as well.   

justrace:

pedekay:

twinkle_toes22:

same story in autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80187

He’s only got himself to blame (or his management team!) I seriously think he’ll find it hard to get a decent drive in 2011. Red Bull like their drivers ‘on topic’ and PR friendly – this is not Kimi. (one of the sticking points with Mclaren negotiations being availability for sponsors days.) Nobody is going to pay his wage demands this year what makes him think it will happen next year?
I don’t think the sport will neccesarily miss him either, if we have an exciting season he’ll be forgotten by June – did we miss Schumacher in 2007? .. er .. nope .. too much going on. I reckon there’s an 80% chance we won’t see him in F1 again .. maybe if Massa can’t make a full comeback Ferrari might want him again next year. F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t.

Another great post from you, twinkle_toes.  I particularly like this:  "F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t. "  It does seem that he (or his manager) has been pig-headed over issues like the days for sponsors.  There's no getting around it, the drivers just have to make themselves available for the sponsors.

I guess it all came down to the offer McLaren made. I don't think anybody can say that Raikkonen did not consider McLaren seriously. But you cannot expect to pay a minimum and expect a maximum. My guess is that Raikkonen would have signed for the same contract Button got - or the other way round, Button would also not be at McLaren if he was offered the same contract as Raikkonen.

This all seems to have Dennis' handwriting, and smells like cheap revenge on Mercedes.

That sounds like a load of nonsense to me. What makes you think Kimi was offered less than Button? My bet is that Kimi wasn't actually offered a contract, and I think one of the factors for this was that Button was a cheaper signing.

Both thde dodo and Kimi have far more weaknesses then strengths... so all it really came down to was, who could scrape more WCC points and who could had more gimmick marketing...

The both hold a fake WDC, but the dodo's is newer, so they gave him the nod... and I guess is won't hurt McLaren to have the number 1 plate on the car either...

It's just sad for us, because we have another talentless driver boring us in one of the top cars... the FIA and it's stupidity having its usual nasty side effects...

justrace:

pedekay:

justrace:

pedekay:

twinkle_toes22:

same story in autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80187

He’s only got himself to blame (or his management team!) I seriously think he’ll find it hard to get a decent drive in 2011. Red Bull like their drivers ‘on topic’ and PR friendly – this is not Kimi. (one of the sticking points with Mclaren negotiations being availability for sponsors days.) Nobody is going to pay his wage demands this year what makes him think it will happen next year?
I don’t think the sport will neccesarily miss him either, if we have an exciting season he’ll be forgotten by June – did we miss Schumacher in 2007? .. er .. nope .. too much going on. I reckon there’s an 80% chance we won’t see him in F1 again .. maybe if Massa can’t make a full comeback Ferrari might want him again next year. F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t.

Another great post from you, twinkle_toes.  I particularly like this:  "F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t. "  It does seem that he (or his manager) has been pig-headed over issues like the days for sponsors.  There's no getting around it, the drivers just have to make themselves available for the sponsors.

I guess it all came down to the offer McLaren made. I don't think anybody can say that Raikkonen did not consider McLaren seriously. But you cannot expect to pay a minimum and expect a maximum. My guess is that Raikkonen would have signed for the same contract Button got - or the other way round, Button would also not be at McLaren if he was offered the same contract as Raikkonen.

This all seems to have Dennis' handwriting, and smells like cheap revenge on Mercedes.

Justrace, you have posed some very interesting questions here.  Do you think that the deal that Raikkonen was offered, was not as good as the one that Button was offered?  Why do you think this?  Does Ron Dennis control the offers that McLaren make to drivers, and why would he want to revenge himself on Mercedes?

Fact is, we do not know the figures that were on offer. Nick Fry has said they are not true. But even if it is true that Button gets less from McLaren than was on offer from Brawn, I still think it was more than the 5 million that were apparently offered to Raikkonen by McLaren.

Well, the other part is a bit complicated. I am already being accused of making deragoratory remarks about McLaren, which I find quite ridiculous. So let me first say that I have great respect for McLaren and in particular Ron Dennis. But some people don't seem to understand that one can have respect and still maintain a critical view. I have been accused of that already two years ago when I said that Mercedes wants the majority share of McLaren or they will leave and do their own thing. But anyway.

The short of it is, that McLaren got the boot from Mercedes. The contract was terminated prematurely. That is something that does not go down well with Dennis, regardless for the reasons. And Dennis is also well known to hold a grudge. The build up to this is that it was Mercedes who saved McLaren from a two year ban because of spygate. I can only guess what was arranged in the background at McLaren as outcome of that. Dennis resigned as CEO after liegate, again we can only speculate what was going on in the background. But we can assume that he did not do it out of love for producing sport cars. And whatever you think about these events, you will know that Mercedes said the main reason for quitting McLaren was their engagement in sport cars. And of course it was a big blow for Mercedes to lose their WDC driver within two days of announcing the Brawn deal.

Well, put the pieces together and chances are you will also be accused of making deragtory comments about McLaren.

You say it how you see it and I have no issue with that. I think the problem with the hot water McLaren found themselves in was more about the relationship between MM and RD. I'm not saying they didn't do what they did but the penalties were certainly harsher than we've seen of late. I would suggest Mercedes have chosen to break the relationship with McLaren now as there's now a new WCC winning team with highly respected personnel suddenly available and willing to become the Mercedes works team with all that entails. McLaren were not willing to go the extra mile and drop the McLaren name or become a German listed team. The same I think was true with Williams and BMW. Good on them I say as we need independent teams out there.

coops3:

justrace:

pedekay:

twinkle_toes22:

same story in autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80187

He’s only got himself to blame (or his management team!) I seriously think he’ll find it hard to get a decent drive in 2011. Red Bull like their drivers ‘on topic’ and PR friendly – this is not Kimi. (one of the sticking points with Mclaren negotiations being availability for sponsors days.) Nobody is going to pay his wage demands this year what makes him think it will happen next year?
I don’t think the sport will neccesarily miss him either, if we have an exciting season he’ll be forgotten by June – did we miss Schumacher in 2007? .. er .. nope .. too much going on. I reckon there’s an 80% chance we won’t see him in F1 again .. maybe if Massa can’t make a full comeback Ferrari might want him again next year. F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t.

Another great post from you, twinkle_toes.  I particularly like this:  "F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t. "  It does seem that he (or his manager) has been pig-headed over issues like the days for sponsors.  There's no getting around it, the drivers just have to make themselves available for the sponsors.

I guess it all came down to the offer McLaren made. I don't think anybody can say that Raikkonen did not consider McLaren seriously. But you cannot expect to pay a minimum and expect a maximum. My guess is that Raikkonen would have signed for the same contract Button got - or the other way round, Button would also not be at McLaren if he was offered the same contract as Raikkonen.

This all seems to have Dennis' handwriting, and smells like cheap revenge on Mercedes.

That sounds like a load of nonsense to me. What makes you think Kimi was offered less than Button? My bet is that Kimi wasn't actually offered a contract, and I think one of the factors for this was that Button was a cheaper signing.

Well, as I said at lot of my post is based on rumours, which you can of course rubbish. On the other hand for your bet there are not even rumours to support it.

andy karter:

justrace:

pedekay:

justrace:

pedekay:

twinkle_toes22:

same story in autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80187

He’s only got himself to blame (or his management team!) I seriously think he’ll find it hard to get a decent drive in 2011. Red Bull like their drivers ‘on topic’ and PR friendly – this is not Kimi. (one of the sticking points with Mclaren negotiations being availability for sponsors days.) Nobody is going to pay his wage demands this year what makes him think it will happen next year?
I don’t think the sport will neccesarily miss him either, if we have an exciting season he’ll be forgotten by June – did we miss Schumacher in 2007? .. er .. nope .. too much going on. I reckon there’s an 80% chance we won’t see him in F1 again .. maybe if Massa can’t make a full comeback Ferrari might want him again next year. F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t.

Another great post from you, twinkle_toes.  I particularly like this:  "F1 fans need characters like Kimi but it appears that F1 doesn’t. "  It does seem that he (or his manager) has been pig-headed over issues like the days for sponsors.  There's no getting around it, the drivers just have to make themselves available for the sponsors.

I guess it all came down to the offer McLaren made. I don't think anybody can say that Raikkonen did not consider McLaren seriously. But you cannot expect to pay a minimum and expect a maximum. My guess is that Raikkonen would have signed for the same contract Button got - or the other way round, Button would also not be at McLaren if he was offered the same contract as Raikkonen.

This all seems to have Dennis' handwriting, and smells like cheap revenge on Mercedes.

Justrace, you have posed some very interesting questions here.  Do you think that the deal that Raikkonen was offered, was not as good as the one that Button was offered?  Why do you think this?  Does Ron Dennis control the offers that McLaren make to drivers, and why would he want to revenge himself on Mercedes?

Fact is, we do not know the figures that were on offer. Nick Fry has said they are not true. But even if it is true that Button gets less from McLaren than was on offer from Brawn, I still think it was more than the 5 million that were apparently offered to Raikkonen by McLaren.

Well, the other part is a bit complicated. I am already being accused of making deragoratory remarks about McLaren, which I find quite ridiculous. So let me first say that I have great respect for McLaren and in particular Ron Dennis. But some people don't seem to understand that one can have respect and still maintain a critical view. I have been accused of that already two years ago when I said that Mercedes wants the majority share of McLaren or they will leave and do their own thing. But anyway.

The short of it is, that McLaren got the boot from Mercedes. The contract was terminated prematurely. That is something that does not go down well with Dennis, regardless for the reasons. And Dennis is also well known to hold a grudge. The build up to this is that it was Mercedes who saved McLaren from a two year ban because of spygate. I can only guess what was arranged in the background at McLaren as outcome of that. Dennis resigned as CEO after liegate, again we can only speculate what was going on in the background. But we can assume that he did not do it out of love for producing sport cars. And whatever you think about these events, you will know that Mercedes said the main reason for quitting McLaren was their engagement in sport cars. And of course it was a big blow for Mercedes to lose their WDC driver within two days of announcing the Brawn deal.

Well, put the pieces together and chances are you will also be accused of making deragtory comments about McLaren.

You say it how you see it and I have no issue with that. I think the problem with the hot water McLaren found themselves in was more about the relationship between MM and RD. I'm not saying they didn't do what they did but the penalties were certainly harsher than we've seen of late. I would suggest Mercedes have chosen to break the relationship with McLaren now as there's now a new WCC winning team with highly respected personnel suddenly available and willing to become the Mercedes works team with all that entails. McLaren were not willing to go the extra mile and drop the McLaren name or become a German listed team. The same I think was true with Williams and BMW. Good on them I say as we need independent teams out there.

Of course there were many factors to the break-up. Mercedes had already said end of the nineties that they want to buy the team. Dennis managed to pacify them by increasing their share to 40%. But I doubt that this would have been reason enough to break the contract. And from the fact that despite ending the contract prematurely Mercedes gets their money back should show that contract clauses were pulled successfully.

pedekay:

Is it confirmed that Raikkonen was offered £5 mill?  There are comments that for Raikkonen it was the commitment to sponsors days, and the refusal to allow rallying, which were the more important factor.  After all, he doesn't need the money as such.  But it's speculation unless we can get confirmation of exactly what the offers were.

How did Mercedes save McLaren from a two year ban after spygate?  Did they do a deal with Max, for the money instead of the ban?  (btw, it is my decided opinion that Max did a deal with Renault about crashgate - put your hands up, plead guilty and we'll let you off with a slapped wrist, so long as you stay in F1 - but this is off topic, sorry.)

I think that Ron's resignation was the payoff for a lesser punishment after liegate, that seems clear.  Do you think there was link back to spygate there?

Mercedes may have said that the sportscar involvement is why they left, but wasn't it really about wanting to actually control the team, a control which they have got with Brawn?

Now, you say that "it was a big blow for Mercedes to lose their WDC driver within two days of announcing the Brawn deal".  I think you are suggesting that this was Ron's payback against Mercedes for their leaving.  Fry and Button (that sounds like a comedy team!) have both said that Brawn offered more money than McLaren, so it wasn't just about the money for Button.  (He talks about the new challenges.)  But how could Ron make Button's decision for him?

Anyway, justrace, thanks for trying to enlighten me, and I probably need more enlightenment please, if you can be bothered.  And maybe one way to avoid accusations of making derogatory comments about McLaren would be if you made critical comments about some of the other teams as well.   

It is an open secret that after the factory investigation McLaren was to be banned for two years. Mercedes brokered a deal, so the public apology by McLaren was then accepted by the FIA and McLaren let off the hook.

There is not much information about what was going on during liegate, but as you say, it is all just a bit too much coincidence the way things unfolded with Dennis and the re-organisation in McLaren. So yes, I do think there is a link back to spygate and the brokered deal, but I do not know what it is. I am sure more will come out in time.

As I said in the other post, Mercedes surely wanted full control of McLaren and McLaren was not happy to do that. However, that is not enough reason to end the contract pre-maturely wihtout penalty for Mercedes. So I am certain that a contract clause was pulled.

Of course Dennis cannot make a decision for Button, but Dennis is probably the best man in the paddock to broker a deal, if he wants it.

Regarding the accusations, perception can be a dangerous thing. You will find critical posts from about all teams, without exception, and you will also find quite a few posts where I have defended McLaren. That's all I should need to say about this.

pedekay:

Anyway, justrace, thanks for trying to enlighten me, and I probably need more enlightenment please, if you can be bothered.  And maybe one way to avoid accusations of making derogatory comments about McLaren would be if you made critical comments about some of the other teams as well.   

Btw, pdk, you are smart enough to make your own conclusions. Neither do I want to enlighten anybody, nor would you need it. At the end of the day this forum is about opinions and people discussing pros and cons of what goes on in the sport.

But have a look at this old thread. It shows the discussions around Mercedes and McLaren and mentions some rumours 2 years ago.

Re: McLaren to be replaced b AMG???

You can also see that the reaction from some Hamilton fans has not changed since that time either. Compare the posts from considerandgo and anametoremember. The denial is quite funny, really.

justrace:

pedekay:

Is it confirmed that Raikkonen was offered £5 mill?  There are comments that for Raikkonen it was the commitment to sponsors days, and the refusal to allow rallying, which were the more important factor.  After all, he doesn't need the money as such.  But it's speculation unless we can get confirmation of exactly what the offers were.

How did Mercedes save McLaren from a two year ban after spygate?  Did they do a deal with Max, for the money instead of the ban?  (btw, it is my decided opinion that Max did a deal with Renault about crashgate - put your hands up, plead guilty and we'll let you off with a slapped wrist, so long as you stay in F1 - but this is off topic, sorry.)

I think that Ron's resignation was the payoff for a lesser punishment after liegate, that seems clear.  Do you think there was link back to spygate there?

Mercedes may have said that the sportscar involvement is why they left, but wasn't it really about wanting to actually control the team, a control which they have got with Brawn?

Now, you say that "it was a big blow for Mercedes to lose their WDC driver within two days of announcing the Brawn deal".  I think you are suggesting that this was Ron's payback against Mercedes for their leaving.  Fry and Button (that sounds like a comedy team!) have both said that Brawn offered more money than McLaren, so it wasn't just about the money for Button.  (He talks about the new challenges.)  But how could Ron make Button's decision for him?

Anyway, justrace, thanks for trying to enlighten me, and I probably need more enlightenment please, if you can be bothered.  And maybe one way to avoid accusations of making derogatory comments about McLaren would be if you made critical comments about some of the other teams as well.   

It is an open secret that after the factory investigation McLaren was to be banned for two years. Mercedes brokered a deal, so the public apology by McLaren was then accepted by the FIA and McLaren let off the hook.

There is not much information about what was going on during liegate, but as you say, it is all just a bit too much coincidence the way things unfolded with Dennis and the re-organisation in McLaren. So yes, I do think there is a link back to spygate and the brokered deal, but I do not know what it is. I am sure more will come out in time.

As I said in the other post, Mercedes surely wanted full control of McLaren and McLaren was not happy to do that. However, that is not enough reason to end the contract pre-maturely wihtout penalty for Mercedes. So I am certain that a contract clause was pulled.

Of course Dennis cannot make a decision for Button, but Dennis is probably the best man in the paddock to broker a deal, if he wants it.

Regarding the accusations, perception can be a dangerous thing. You will find critical posts from about all teams, without exception, and you will also find quite a few posts where I have defended McLaren. That's all I should need to say about this.

I said it 2-3 weeks ago, Ron dennis went to Adu Dhabi to snap up Button LOLOL